Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:06
  #441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 77
Maybe they can start from the top. For such a small airline does quantas really need 5 CEOs?

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-...eadership.html

unobtanium is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:10
  #442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Gladstone
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
Just to be clear. Does “The Group” include Jetstar and Qantaslink (ie Eastern/Sunstate). In terms of Seniority based CR that is?

Its all very confusing when they don't actually stipulate individual entities.

I think for QantasLink (Dash) they will be OK - As for the Q300 I believe their time is limited...The 380 equivalent. Theres a spot for them (somewhere) but the 787 (Q400) does whats needed for the indefinite future.

Enjoy your seat however, doubt there will be any positive movement for quit sometime.
Fujiroll76 is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:21
  #443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,093
Jetstar Singapore removing 6 Aircraft bringing its fleet down to 13. Cutting 1/4 of its headcount.

Not much info on Kiwi or Japan.
wheels_down is online now  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:21
  #444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: awstrukinfailure
Posts: 81
1500 Ground staff

Sounds like almost all the international terminal ground staff have got the axe. Takes a huge chunk out of TWU representation (and remove another thorn from Joyce's garden). Just wonder if the Transport Guys at Mascot will be spared - or will that go to Carbridge as well.
plainmaker is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:35
  #445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Block 49
Posts: 47
A point of order

Originally Posted by Fonz121 View Post
Yes they do apparently
Actually, they do not have LOFO.
A check of their EBA does not specify any such reverse order.
Weapons Grade is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:40
  #446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
What they say - and would like - is different from what they CAN do.

If there are no government restrictions imposed, the stand downs cease. Then they are dealing with a business issue - if there aren’t enough customers. If they decide they are overstocked with staff, then they need to follow the relevant EAs with respect to redundancies etc.

Irrespective of what is implied, you can’t be kept stood down forever - I wish people would realise this. It’s not up to the company to decide when it applies - otherwise no one would ever be made redundant - they’d just be stood down indefinitely.. that’s not how IR law works.
Yes, they can say ‘no useful work’ all they want but if the international borders come down then there is no legitimate reason to stand someone down.
It becomes a commercial issue of demand!
I foresee an argument from the A380 crew when the time comes if QF still insist on standing them down.
Wingspar is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:42
  #447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: SE QLD
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Wingspar View Post
Yes, they can say ‘no useful work’ all they want but if the international borders come down then there is no legitimate reason to stand someone down.
It becomes a commercial issue of demand!
I foresee an argument from the A380 crew when the time comes if QF still insist on standing them down.
Exactly right!
ScepticalOptomist is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:54
  #448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 300
Yep, without question.

Stand-Down Provisions

Notwithstanding any other clause of this Agreement, the Company is entitled to deduct payments from the pay of a pilot for any day on which the pilot cannot be usefully employed because of any strike, stoppage or any other limitation of work for which the Company cannot be held responsible subject to the following conditions:

Once we are past the government restrictions, it can’t be considered that the Company cannot be held responsible
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:57
  #449 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 360
Borders would have to be open with no covid-related restrictions on people entering both here and at the destination for that to be the case I'd have thought.
Fonz121 is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 07:03
  #450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by Fonz121 View Post
Borders would have to be open with no covid-related restrictions on people entering both here and at the destination for that to be the case I'd have thought.
If here the USA and UK were open then the 380 could return to its previous routes therefore no reason for those crews to be stood down.
dragon man is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 07:05
  #451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by SandyPalms View Post
Yep, without question.

Stand-Down Provisions

Notwithstanding any other clause of this Agreement, the Company is entitled to deduct payments from the pay of a pilot for any day on which the pilot cannot be usefully employed because of any strike, stoppage or any other limitation of work for which the Company cannot be held responsible subject to the following conditions:

Once we are past the government restrictions, it can’t be considered that the Company cannot be held responsible
So come July 2021 when Allan says international will be at 10%. Can you please confirm you are saying you would like 90% (1350) pilots made redundant so those at the top can do some ‘useful work’ ?
normanton is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 07:15
  #452 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 300
Norm, Norm, Norm. Again with the hatred of those senior. That is the legal clause. Are you suggesting we should amend it? I don’t want anybody made redundant. If amendments are to be made, the company must negotiate.

I would add that company will ask for concessions. Many of those will, most likely, adversely effect those at the top half to benefit only those at the very bottom. Your attitude won’t be helping them when their finger is poised over the yes or no button. Something to think about.
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 07:32
  #453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 42
The clause in the EA partially quoted above sets out the triggers for the stand down. There is nothing written in the EA or the general stand down info available at Fair Work that outlines a process or trigger for stand up. It will be the FWC that will have to rule on this. What is the political make up of the FWC these days, who appointed them? Where will they sit in terms of the needs of the economy and the health of Qantas versus the interests of the A380 guys. Will the government be supportive of the A380 pilots position or join the proceedings to offer a counter view. Good luck in predicting how this will turn out.
The_Equaliser is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 07:42
  #454 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 147
I doubt there would be too much of an issue claiming that the ‘no useful work’ was due covid, even when the borders open and therefore beyond the company’s control. The movement of people is likely to be heavily restricted for years to come.

what a sh$t day.
cloudsurfng is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:00
  #455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Cill
Posts: 25
Unhappy

Jetstar Newcastle pilots + crew , Maintenance and Perth pilots closing. Best wishes to all.
ShandywithSugar is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:04
  #456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by Weapons Grade View Post
Actually, they do not have LOFO.
A check of their EBA does not specify any such reverse order.
It doesn’t use that term but 24.2.1(e) and 24.2.4(b) could be considered to mean the same thing (assuming LOFO is Last On, First Off)
StudentInDebt is online now  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:15
  #457 (permalink)  
34R
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 49
Posts: 230
I doubt very much the majority of my colleagues will see fit to hamstring themselves to prevent my inevitable reunion with the scrap heap.... and to be honest I wouldn't expect them to either.

Qantas has always been the land of the have's and the have more's. On the one hand there are people hanging on for dear life and on the other are people squabbling about superannuation implications.... quite surreal really.

I went through this with Ansett and am preparing to go through it again now. If you are in the firing line, I'm thinking of you.

34R is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:20
  #458 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by SandyPalms View Post
Norm, Norm, Norm. Again with the hatred of those senior. That is the legal clause. Are you suggesting we should amend it? I don’t want anybody made redundant. If amendments are to be made, the company must negotiate.

I would add that company will ask for concessions. Many of those will, most likely, adversely effect those at the top half to benefit only those at the very bottom. Your attitude won’t be helping them when their finger is poised over the yes or no button. Something to think about.
Pretty much what Equaliser said.

You have your definition and reasoning, the company has a different view. It's the same with redundancy LH vs SH. If it goes that far it will end up in the courts. Stuff like this has never been tested. Your not right, your not wrong, it is just an opinion.

If you are employed on the 380 and the company says there is no useful work for them for 3 years (borders closed or not) then you can remain stood down (yep it sucks).

I do not believe that allows you to use your seniority to jump ship elsewhere, simply because another fleet is maybe flying 10%. That's ridiculous.
normanton is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:39
  #459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by StudentInDebt View Post
It doesn’t use that term but 24.2.1(e) and 24.2.4(b) could be considered to mean the same thing (assuming LOFO is Last On, First Off)
yeah that's what i meant by lofo; redundency in reverse order
maggot is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 08:45
  #460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3
A lot of the senior QF pilots should really treat this as a golden opportunity to wind down, to travel a bit (when able) etc. VR would be great but many of us do this job because we love flying and it is bloody hard to give up, not because of the money but job satisfaction. This period will give those who don't want to retire just yet, time to really explore what retirement will be like, and hopefully in a year or so, get back to flying.
Feetweet is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.