QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
Nunc est bibendum
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,235
Originally Posted by ozbiggles
We will just have to settle for reading it here, at least until PPRuNe comes with an audio function on e day.
I think it’s also worth looking at this from the company’s perspective- isn’t that a Sun Tzu thing to consider your predicament from the opposition’s view point?
Do you think they’d prefer to pay 6 months to someone at the start of their career and run the risk of not getting them back or find the ‘sweet spot’ amount of money (perhaps a similar amount of money or perhaps less depending on who they’re offering) to get people to leave at the end of their careers and still retain the investment on those newer crew.
If the A380 is a chance to remain stood down beyond March next year and/ or reduced capacity when it comes back, would an A380 Captain consider taking a package worth (say) $150K in March next year or potentially work 50% (or less) divisors for the next 12 months until they get to retirement?
I’m also pretty confident that the company can put an individual offer to specific crew so I’m sure there would be a bit of a ‘sliding scale’ as to how much a particular pilot may be offered depending on their time to retirement.
Anyway, it’s going to be a rough couple of years. Very few winners anywhere.
Last edited by Keg; 15th Jun 2020 at 10:11.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 52
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by TimmyTee
What I admittedly don't understand is how someone can be assured that they are covered by an agreement if they are not employed by the company.
In other words, what stops a company coming out and saying "in line with gender equality criteria, we will be employing at 50/50"?
In other words, what stops a company coming out and saying "in line with gender equality criteria, we will be employing at 50/50"?
But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Straya
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by oicur12.again
Not legal.
But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.
But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney
Age: 40
Posts: 6
But why would you accept a VR ?
The money will be less than CR and you forfeit guaranteed right of return
Think Keg is incorrect in thinking that a sliding scale can be offered which targets those who are older
Don't VRs just apply for years of service , not years remaining , why for example would a 55 year old leave - they will not get another job
Just stick together and maximize the payout to any who get CR , make AJ pay the full amount as prescribed by EA
"If" there is a CR it would have to be done in seniority , so a % of those at the bottom go & are all reemployed within 5 years - all works out
The Kiwis acted promptly and set the example - just follow it and try to get provisions in any deal for those made redundant to have preference for employment at other QF group airlines (obviously after their own for example
Qlink come back)
The only variable is if you have to CR across each division of mainline - are SH FOs who have been around for short time protected by the fact they went to SH
The money will be less than CR and you forfeit guaranteed right of return
Think Keg is incorrect in thinking that a sliding scale can be offered which targets those who are older
Don't VRs just apply for years of service , not years remaining , why for example would a 55 year old leave - they will not get another job
Just stick together and maximize the payout to any who get CR , make AJ pay the full amount as prescribed by EA
"If" there is a CR it would have to be done in seniority , so a % of those at the bottom go & are all reemployed within 5 years - all works out
The Kiwis acted promptly and set the example - just follow it and try to get provisions in any deal for those made redundant to have preference for employment at other QF group airlines (obviously after their own for example
Qlink come back)
The only variable is if you have to CR across each division of mainline - are SH FOs who have been around for short time protected by the fact they went to SH
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by Gazza mate
Careful oicur12. Pilots are loosing their livelihood and some have gone further than “soil their strides”. Just look at what’s happened at EK in the last week. Very sad. I don’t think it’s amusing at all.
What a low life comment.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by oicur12.again
Not legal.
But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.
But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 52
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by Gazza mate
Careful oicur12. Pilots are loosing their livelihood and some have gone further than “soil their strides”. Just look at what’s happened at EK in the last week. Very sad. I don’t think it’s amusing at all.
What is amusing and the subject of my previous post is that even in these desperate times, men are still conspiracy theorizing about mythical quotas that could see women move beyond the pathetic 5% of the cockpit seats they presently occupy.
Hence my comment about exclusivity.
It's something our friend from NZ in later comments clearly does not understand.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Age: 57
Posts: 430
Back in February on another thread, I was warning this was going to be huge. I was repeatedly told "this virus has nothing to do with aviation so take your opinions elsewhere", as well as receiving the benefit of several lessons in high school math regarding exponential growth curves and log functions.
Anyway, that was a few months ago. I think the latest data suggests fairly strongly that we are further through this than we think, and that society overall will recover a bit faster than many think. Look at the ASX and NYSE.
I don't think there will be a devastating 2nd wave. Yes cases will increase as measures are relaxed. However there is very little chance we will need to lockdown again.
Sure, cases are increasing in parts of the USA. Behind the headline total numbers however, the % hospitalised and the % who die are falling significantly. The explanation is that with increased testing capacity, they are finding more of the milder cases that were always there but not diagnosed initially. It now appears clear the mortality rate is way under 1% (and closer to 0.1% for those under 60).
However, it will be a very different world for aviation for years to come
1. Fewer pax overall
2. Likely smaller aircraft - not sure the 380 is coming back to service anytime soon
3. Possibly more point-to-point flying, and less use of highly congested hubs
4. Fewer high yield business pax (J and full fare Y). Businesses will be saying "Zoom worked pretty well for 6 months ....."
5. A greater proportion of deeply discounted leisure pax in Y
So aviation will recover sooner than we think. But it will be a different world. Airlines and their workforce will need to plan accordingly.
Embrace change, or else it will embrace you.
Anyway, that was a few months ago. I think the latest data suggests fairly strongly that we are further through this than we think, and that society overall will recover a bit faster than many think. Look at the ASX and NYSE.
I don't think there will be a devastating 2nd wave. Yes cases will increase as measures are relaxed. However there is very little chance we will need to lockdown again.
Sure, cases are increasing in parts of the USA. Behind the headline total numbers however, the % hospitalised and the % who die are falling significantly. The explanation is that with increased testing capacity, they are finding more of the milder cases that were always there but not diagnosed initially. It now appears clear the mortality rate is way under 1% (and closer to 0.1% for those under 60).
However, it will be a very different world for aviation for years to come
1. Fewer pax overall
2. Likely smaller aircraft - not sure the 380 is coming back to service anytime soon
3. Possibly more point-to-point flying, and less use of highly congested hubs
4. Fewer high yield business pax (J and full fare Y). Businesses will be saying "Zoom worked pretty well for 6 months ....."
5. A greater proportion of deeply discounted leisure pax in Y
So aviation will recover sooner than we think. But it will be a different world. Airlines and their workforce will need to plan accordingly.
Embrace change, or else it will embrace you.
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 322
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...hcOp82UzxwEQpM
Qantas looks to mothball it’s flagship Airbus A380s
Qantas looks to mothball it’s flagship Airbus A380s
Last edited by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE; 17th Jun 2020 at 05:41.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney
Age: 40
Posts: 6
TT , QF can employ 100% diversity if or when they chose if they employ externals
Compulsory redundancies are re-employed in seniority order
So why does diversity employment atm even rate a mention
Mainline didn't employ externals for 8 years post GFC , so long time to employ any externals now
Just take the very generous & prescriptive CR dollars and put the guaranteed re-employment slip in your back pocket
Your leader will probably be sipping pink daiquiris at a luxurious penthouse on South Beach or yodeling from atop a luxurious villa in the Swiss Alps by that time
but you can't change that
Compulsory redundancies are re-employed in seniority order
So why does diversity employment atm even rate a mention
Mainline didn't employ externals for 8 years post GFC , so long time to employ any externals now
Just take the very generous & prescriptive CR dollars and put the guaranteed re-employment slip in your back pocket
Your leader will probably be sipping pink daiquiris at a luxurious penthouse on South Beach or yodeling from atop a luxurious villa in the Swiss Alps by that time
but you can't change that
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 2,909
so no realistic plans for international travel until March/April 2021.
Nunc est bibendum
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,235
Even when the borders do open up I can’t see the demand coming back for another 12+ months beyond that for 500 seats a day between SYD/ MEL and LAX, or SYD/MEL- LHR.
I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesn’t have enough of!
I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesn’t have enough of!
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 322
Originally Posted by Keg
Even when the borders do open up I can’t see the demand coming back for another 12+ months beyond that for 500 seats a day between SYD/ MEL and LAX, or SYD/MEL- LHR.
I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesn’t have enough of!
I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesn’t have enough of!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 871
Really?
Qantas and Air NZ parking up their international fleets in deserts fills you full of confidence?
2nd waves breaking out in the States fills you full of confidence?
The majority of cases in NZ and Aus are being bought in from overseas fills you full of confidence?
The tourism minister today saying he doesn’t know when it is going to happen and saying the tourism industry is going to be hit the longest fills you with confidence?
You are not seeing travel at the moment, you are seeing citizens returning home for a 14 day stay in a hotel.
I mean I’d love to have a leprechaun to find me a pot of gold but I think I will tune into reality first.
Qantas and Air NZ parking up their international fleets in deserts fills you full of confidence?
2nd waves breaking out in the States fills you full of confidence?
The majority of cases in NZ and Aus are being bought in from overseas fills you full of confidence?
The tourism minister today saying he doesn’t know when it is going to happen and saying the tourism industry is going to be hit the longest fills you with confidence?
You are not seeing travel at the moment, you are seeing citizens returning home for a 14 day stay in a hotel.
I mean I’d love to have a leprechaun to find me a pot of gold but I think I will tune into reality first.
