QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

[normanton]

Top secret VR numbers. Qantas falling short by roughly $400m in the share raising attempt. ER package that will most likely see 63+ stay on the books. Not looking good for CR.

Secure your future. Take LWOP!

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by dragon man

When jobkeeper finishes you will still be stood down but then only accumulating annual and long service leave plus for those still in division 3 super years of service towards your final payout.

One cannot be stood down beyond Jobkeeper, that's the same as LWOP, which cannot be imposed. Be aware with LWOP, there is no support, you cannot be on jobseeker when on LWOP because you are not unemployed.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Originally Posted by normanton

Top secret VR numbers. Qantas falling short by roughly $400m in the share raising attempt. ER package that will most likely see 63+ stay on the books. Not looking good for CR.

Secure your future. Take LWOP!

No surprises there. Who would throw money into an airline when there is no end to the travel restrictions? Alan may have found a problem he can’t hide from.

Can you elaborate on the mechanism by which LWOP will secure our futures?

[Koizi]

You could almost complete a medical degree (4 year grad degree) if you wanted to

Studying full time and paying full fee tuition? Then becoming an overworked and underpaid intern (possibly in a regional location) and then a registrar and then (at least) another couple of years for specialty training?
Not having a go at the industry but unless you're being supported (such as a 20 year old living with mum and dad) - not a viable path for those needing to replace a salary and support a family.

you cannot be on jobseeker when on LWOP

But you will be paid jobkeeper.

[Give it the herbs]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

One cannot be stood down beyond Jobkeeper, that's the same as LWOP, which cannot be imposed. Be aware with LWOP, there is no support, you cannot be on jobseeker when on LWOP because you are not unemployed.

You need to do some serious fact checking

[normanton]

Why can't you be stood down beyond Jobkepper? You WILL remain stood down until your fleet is back flying. It's legal, and AIPA don't appear willing to challenge it.

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay

Can you elaborate on the mechanism by which LWOP will secure our futures?

Sure. Its very simple. The company is asking us to take LWOP to help them out. In return they will help us out by bypassing us for redundancy. Those who don't help out the company, will see the CR hammer when and if it comes. When CR's happen (and I firmly believe they will), the people who didn't take LWOP will be kicking and screaming. The company will simply say "we gave you the option to take LWOP and you didn't. Now we will be enforcing the EBA that you pilots only voted on 5 months ago".

[gordonfvckingramsay]

In return they will help us out by bypassing us for redundancy

Can I have that in writing? Bypassing is for redundancy sounds like like Qantas management speak for “you give us something in turn for some vague suggestion that it may benefit you”. I’m calling bull**** on it.

[normanton]

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay

Can I have that in writing? Bypassing is for redundancy sounds like like Qantas management speak for “you give us something in turn for some vague suggestion that it may benefit you”. I’m calling bull**** on it.

Yes you can have that in writing. It’s in the LWOP contract you sign.

You sound like a senior pilot squirming in your seat at the thought of all the junior crew taking LWOP and leaving you exposed.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay

Can you elaborate on the mechanism by which LWOP will secure our futures?

Probably not the right term and in fact, there's really no such thing, that said, there are only two options where you are not stood down unaffected. LWOP and Redundancy and which way to go is dependant on how long this will last and age, type, classification, base.
No change in the next 6 months
50% chance of eradication within the country in the next 12 months
High chance of eradication in the next 2 years.
International Borders remain closed for at least 2 years.

If you use this forecast then there's a chance of being recalled early and going back to work. If you're made redundant then you'll be in the last group in any case, when there's a shortage without any certainty of being re-employed at all.

Unless I was over 55 I would do nothing, roll the dice and let it be.
The over 55's have a bit more to consider.

[maggot]

Ime there is no tit for tat

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by normanton

Why can't you be stood down beyond Jobkepper? You WILL remain stood down until your fleet is back flying. It's legal, and AIPA don't appear willing to challenge it.

Because being stood down beyond jobkeeper is the same as being made redundant without paying you and the law doesn't provide for that. You can only be employed in some form, LWOP or redundant. everything else is unemployed.

[normanton]

But we were stood down before JobKeeper was even a thing?

Stand down clause is in the LH EBA.

Sorry but I don’t follow...

[gordonfvckingramsay]

You sound like a senior pilot squirming in your seat at the thought of all the junior crew taking LWOP and leaving you exposed.

Haha you got me.

You go and trust Alan and we’ll see who gets fvcked in the end.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by normanton

But we were stood down before JobKeeper was even a thing?

And that is the very reason for jobkeeper, You cannot be stood down without pay indefinitely.

[normanton]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

And that is the very reason for jobkeeper, You cannot be stood down without pay indefinitely.

Ok. Qantas lawyers (and I) disagree with you.

No useful work = stand down.

The reason Jobkepepr was introduced was to avoid mass redundancy.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

And that is the very reason for jobkeeper, You cannot be stood down without pay indefinitely.

What makes you think that?

They can absolutely stand us down indefinitely without pay. Stand downs were announced before the job keeper program was.

[normanton]

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay

Haha you got me.

You go and trust Alan and we’ll see who gets fvcked in the end.

We sure will. The house always wins. You should know that by now. I know which lawyers I want on my side when **** his the fan.

Enjoy your gamble. I truely pray it doesn’t bite you (or anyone else) in the arse.

[Xeptu]

I don't know where you guys are getting this nonsense from and quite frankly is a dangerous precedent.

You are either, employed, full time, part time, casual, paid leave, unpaid leave, resigned, terminated, voluntary redundant, compulsory redundant.

Stand down provisions are legal in Australia, but not indefinitely, it will be called out and that will be when job keeper ends. Then you'll need to be, back at work, on leave, LWOP, resigned or redundant.

[Kaboobla]

Qrewroom readers will note that Normanton recently outed his true identity in a spat on a thread with WK. Same syntax, same petulance, same over inflated sense of entitlement.

Normanton is pushing super hard for people to take LWOP so he can avoid his own CR. There is no altruism in this - its all about him. Ignore his arguments and lies and statements about what AIPA legal has or has not said.

The game is nearly up for you my friend. Enjoy your redundancy payment and the resumption of your RAAF career.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

I don't know where you guys are getting this nonsense from and quite frankly is a dangerous precedent.

You are either, employed, full time, part time, casual, paid leave, unpaid leave, resigned, terminated, voluntary redundant, compulsory redundant.

Stand down provisions are legal in Australia, but not indefinitely, it will be called out and that will be when job keeper ends. Then you'll need to be, back at work, on leave, LWOP, resigned or redundant.

My EBA and section 524 of the Fair Work Act which states; an employer can stand down an employee without pay where they can’t usefully be employed because of a stoppage of work for any cause for which the employer can’t reasonably be held responsible. Employees who are stood down without pay remain employed for the period of the stand down.

I cant see a cap on how long stand down can be enforced for.