All borders to reopen.

[JJ 789]

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

Why no it isn’t in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability. If you get the vaccine you have a demonstrated zero chance of dying, and a possibility of an easily treated allergic reaction approximately 1 in 2 million times.

Aviation is never coming back without a wide scale vaccination programme, and I would not be surprised to see them made mandatory by employers, governments and health care providers. .

Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks

[kingRB]

Originally Posted by De_flieger

Those statements are incorrect.

There are numerous peer reviewed studies completed or being done into the long-term health effects of coronavirus due to the numbers of people experiencing long term symptoms or organ damage. You can read about one study that was done at St Vincents Hospital (Sydney) here: Australian study finds COVID-19 'long haulers' suffer symptoms months after coronavirus infection or one that was done in the UK here: Southmead Hospital publishes pioneering research on long term effects of coronavirus. There are many others out there, I don't want to spam you or the message board with links, but there is a lot of research being done in hospitals in many different countries all over the world including Australia and the USA on this exact topic, these results can be found relatively easily via Google taking you to their publishers or research organisations.

So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

[De_flieger]

Originally Posted by kingRB

So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote. As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency. One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

[currawong]

Interesting the assumption that federal control of the situation would be any different, namely better, than what we have already.

Could go either way....

[kingRB]

Originally Posted by De_flieger

No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote.

The claim was made by Australopithecus. I believe the figure stated was 20% of infections result in some form of permanent disability.

Originally Posted by De_flieger

As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency.
One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

I never said there wasn't possible long term effects from it. What I said was there is absolute zero difference in its ongoing effects where reported, and any other known respiratory virus. Certainly none that is causing any adverse effects we haven't seen before. The links you posted show nothing more than acknowledgement of that fact :
"This research helps to describe what many coronavirus patients have been telling us: they are still breathless, tired, and not sleeping well months after admission. Reassuringly, however, abnormalities on X-rays and breathing tests are rare in this group. Further work in the DISCOVER project will help us to understand why this is, and how we can help coronavirus sufferers."

[Australopithecus]

Originally Posted by JJ 789

Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks

To be clear, I don’t care if you get vaccinated or not. . You will have skin in the game.I will not. Chances are you will be exactly in the vast group of your contemporaries that emerge free of lasting damage or even inconvenience. If not, well, you rolled the dice...

WRT to the side- effects of the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Really? Examine the data and the commentary and then get back to me. The trial set was plenty large enough to reveal issues. They didn’t arise in the phase 3 trials, but they do in the twittersphere? Someone had better rewrite my statistical analysis texts then. Sore triceps and a short duration low grade fever are part of the standard reaction to vaccines.

[aussieflyboy]

Apparently there’s a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

I can’t imagine this being very legal in the industrial sense however I’m not too sure? I guess there may be a bout of the 1 day cold getting around. Could be interesting if the media get hold of the idea.

[Australopithecus]

In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it won’t take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist. The elemental take-away is that in the tug-of-war between virus and vaccine, in the context of being able to retain a CASA, or any other, medical, there is a set of probabilities that reflects, mathematically, your comparative risk. Since the set of Covid-19 sufferers is 80 million ish, and the general CFR and Case long term effects are being quantified, the question then becomes what is the comparative risk of not being vaccinated. The younger you are, obviously, the more you can afford to entertain pig-ignorant superstition in the place of actual, you know-science. Go ahead...I would be keen to know if actual experience in the CASA regulatory environment is as forgiving and risk-rewarding as you obviously seem to think it would be.

Best of luck, and a safe and Happy New Year.

Oh by the way...I didn’t, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.

[WingNut60]

Originally Posted by aussieflyboy

................as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

In what way are you seeing his policy as random?
He has closed every state and territory border at some stage when they have had active Covid cases.

I'm just not seeing random. Happy to be enlightened.

[Green.Dot]

Originally Posted by aussieflyboy

Apparently there’s a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

Good luck with that.

McGowan didn’t bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots won’t win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Green.Dot

Good luck with that.

McGowan didn’t bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots won’t win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.

Agreed, I have no clue what this supposed action will achieve. At best a few FIFO shift changes are delayed by a day, and no one in any position of power even realises or cares that it happened.

At worst it hits the papers and those involved could face legal action for unauthorised organised industrial action, and be torn apart by the media. There’ll be no sympathy, every slur used against pilots who take any form of action (they’re all on $500k per year, they only work two days a week, flying is all automated anyway) will be spread all across the news and they’ll win no supporters.

There’s more diplomatic and constructive ways to deal with this.

[Ragnor]

I thought Dan had a solid rock plan for covid even employing a covid commander to oversee it. Hard border closure now they’re running for the hills in Victoria. You would think tho, after the last mess up they had they would be prepared but typical labour gov can’t prepare for anything this is why WA closes ASAP when one case occurs they can’t cope either.

Victoria testing centers close being un able to keep up that is madness at its best, they want ppl to get tested but can’t test ppl. What is Dan doing down there, nothing obviously!

[kingRB]

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it won’t take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist.

I don't need to go looking to find the evidence, I didn't make the claims. It's on you to substantiate what you said. It shouldn't be difficult if all the evidence is so apparent.

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

Oh by the way...I didn’t, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.

Didn't you? One of us has a reading comprehension problem then.

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability.

[wheels_down]

Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.

Vic was just unlucky. Could have been any state that got this one.

Go on, you take your annual leave whilst the poor folks of Victoria are suffering as a result of your arrogance.

[Green.Dot]

Less cases in NSW than Vic today. Talk about passing on a baton made of dynamite to a bunch of people who have just had f%€¥en enough.

Where was Annastacia in the relay race when you need her?

Your contact tracing no doubt sh#ts all over Victoria but fcvk you Gladys for not mandating masks when we are now wearing them AGAIN under a dictator d!ck who will be relishing round 3 of this crap.

Rant complete.

[Ragnor]

So many angry at NSW, I told you all we are the best at handling this. As demonstrated we are single little country’s on one island no one wanting to learn or work with the virus. NSW could have show Vic the way.

Also let’s not forget the clusters Victoria residents started in Sydney back in May, June.

[SHVC]

Originally Posted by wheels_down

Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.

The arrogance! Victoria has had plenty of time to prepare they obviously have not. Covid is here for years to think otherwise is even more arrogant.

[Potsie Weber]

So maybe McClown’s shutting of the WA border to all NSW on Dec 19 wasn’t such a stupid idea?

[airdualbleedfault]

Hate to admit I was thinking the same thing Potsie

[myshoutcaptain]

Originally Posted by Potsie Weber

So maybe McClown’s shutting of the WA border to all NSW on Dec 19 wasn’t such a stupid idea?

Retrospective isolation for crew backdated to anyone’s guess and just landing in a state other than WA constitutes entering that State even if you don’t leave the aircraft!.

No other crews have the restrictions McGowan has applied to WA crews but still expects FIFO and cargo to continue.

Whilst the population moves freely unabated the crews are locked at home.