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Old 19th Feb 2021, 06:48
  #3761 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t think cost is really an issue considering Victoria quick brain snap lockdown cost 1 billion dollars.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 11:55
  #3762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jrfsp
Since when has BJ been interested in health advice....over 100K have died on his watch.
What a stupid comment. The UK's 65,000,000 population in an area the size of VIC, the UK being geographically a crossroads for world travel unlike the Cul-de-Sac that is Australia and the far older population. Of course there will be a lot of deaths! The fact is the lethality is extremely low for people under 65 years old!

Maybe you should see the latest headlines in the UK about the expected extra 100,000 Cancer deaths in the next year (affecting all ages severely) because the illness has been undiagnosed or untreated due to the Covid flap. And that's just the Big C. Time to look past the BS now...
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 13:28
  #3763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
What a stupid comment. The UK's 65,000,000 population in an area the size of VIC, the UK being geographically a crossroads for world travel unlike the Cul-de-Sac that is Australia and the far older population. Of course there will be a lot of deaths! The fact is the lethality is extremely low for people under 65 years old!

Maybe you should see the latest headlines in the UK about the expected extra 100,000 Cancer deaths in the next year (affecting all ages severely) because the illness has been undiagnosed or untreated due to the Covid flap. And that's just the Big C. Time to look past the BS now...
Problem is Australia has gone all in with the govt/media scare tactics, too hard to reverse course now without looking stupid.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 18:38
  #3764 (permalink)  
 
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I can't wait to go back flying with all you tinfoil hat wearers. Should make for a fun ride.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 23:50
  #3765 (permalink)  
601
 
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Problem is Australia has gone all in with the govt/media scare tactics, too hard to reverse course now without looking stupid.
So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 01:05
  #3766 (permalink)  
 
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I said it a few weeks ago and I'll say it again, Australian governments are going to have a really hard time selling the fact that increasing COVID cases and some deaths are an acceptable outcome in a post-vaccination Australia.

Will Mark McGowan, who's sitting on an 80% plus approval rating and looks likely to destroy the WA Liberals in a few weeks, be willing to stay open if there are any COVID cases in the eastern states, and any risk at all that Mr or Mrs Jones in their nursing homes may be one of the few people whom the Pfizer vaccine doesn't protect?

Reducing the number of deaths in the US from 4000 to 400 a day would be seen as a triumph. 4 deaths a day in Australia would be unacceptable. Not sure how Scotty from Marketing is going to sell that one, and his comments yesterday that vaccinations "should" see an end to lockdowns and border closures, frankly, doesn't fill me with confidence.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 01:37
  #3767 (permalink)  
 
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Well that's what happens when you create fear, panic and hysteria for your own political means. It's been a real education reading what that sort of rot does to seemingly intelligent people (like Sunfish). You kind of expect it from the uneducated 50% or so.

Last edited by McLimit; 20th Feb 2021 at 06:38.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 05:28
  #3768 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.
its all relative though.. if you are happy to live in your own little neighbourhood bubble and work locally then yeah whatís been going on is fine - but the fact that we havenít had a significant breakout and/or a covid related death in Australian in 4-5 months SHOULD give us the confidence to be able to travel and work freely across our country without fear of being locked up or locked out of your home state!

Because tradies are busy does that mean we shouldnít give a flying $&@! that there are people who havenít been able to see their elderly and close to dead relatives in Perth for more than a 2 week window in over 12 months? Or that there have been literally hundreds of thousands who have been stood down and relying on government handouts to feed their families?

weíre lucky, we are isolated, and other than one example in vic last year the combination of quarantine and track/trace/isolate has kept Australia for the most part covid free.. so why the fear?
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 06:41
  #3769 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.
For what itís worth. itís probably just as hard to get one of these in the U.K. at present despite the numbers of cases.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 08:55
  #3770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
Approved through the normal process per other vaccines.

Not under emergency use provisions or under a temporary authorisation.

Due in large part to having the luxury of time to do so, due to the low rates of infection.
well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial. Your assertion that Australia has somehow approved the vaccine in a differant way is incorrect. Granted theyíve had sight of an expanded phase 3 in the real world scenario and at scale, but itís still an EUA and NOT full approval of a vaccine.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 12:24
  #3771 (permalink)  
 
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Here is a classic example of why the various Health Officers around the country have been given way too much authority. They simply donít understand the social and economic consequences of their decisions, and merely see things only from a health perspective. The Premiers need to weigh up the decisions accordingly.

Dr Jeannette Young in QLD, is quoted in todayís SMH:

ďI really donít like having to recommend to the Premier that we close borders,Ē she said. ďItís not helpful, itís very unnatural as well. But I think it was important that you minimise the risk of new cases. I never realised how many people travel every single day [between NSW and Queensland].Ē
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 12:32
  #3772 (permalink)  
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Here is an interesting aside.. as looking at it from a view point as my new job as a train diver.

There is a web site called ..the man in seat 61.. itís very interesting about rail travel.

It seems many overnight services in Europe, that were stopped a few years ago, are being started again. People are sick of the airport/ low cost /COVID experience.

Iím not suggesting it will happen here .. just throwing it in for a bit of interest.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 21:27
  #3773 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Greens View Post
well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial.
Phase 3 trials are more about studying the efficacy of the vaccine rather than safety.

Phase 1 and 2 are more about safety, and if a vaccine is found to be unsafe it generally appears in phase 2.

Any serious side effect like anaphylaxis will show up within the first 15 minutes, thatís why they get you to stay at the injection site for a while after receiving the shot. Still thatís only at a rate of 4.5 per million for Covid vax.

This article explains why vaccines are safe and have been approved whilst some continuing studies are ongoing.

You can trust the worldís overwhelming body of scientific and medical expertise, and not listen to those brain dead morons who protested around the country yesterday like Pete Evans.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 22:11
  #3774 (permalink)  
 
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Still thatís only at a rate of 4.5 per million for Covid vax.
mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 22:40
  #3775 (permalink)  
 
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You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.
I reckon the narrative will change as soon as he is safely settled in his second term. He is going to be destroyed economically if he keeps up the current act. WA is reliant on immigrant labour due to lack of population, and they don't have any right now. Mining, Farming, Hospitality plus major public works. He will see runaway wage inflation, public works blowouts, cancelled projects, businesses shutting down if he keeps going the way it is. There are plenty of news articles now about businesses unable to find labour in WA so he won't want that to keep going. If he does nothing eventually he'll get tapped on the shoulder by the minerals council telling him to open the border or else. It also gives a free hit to the Libs who can run the mantra of Labor can't manage the economy.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 22:45
  #3776 (permalink)  
 
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I read your comment with interest and respect it, but his ego, like most politicians will put personal popularity above all else. He will hold out for as long as possible. Australians are piss weak on this front. It will take pushing the economy over there to pert near economic collapse before anything changes. And of course, you have to deal with the 50% of the population you've just pushed close to mental collapse with fear, anxiety and chaos. How do you now go to them and say, yeah, all good now? Just my opinion of course and not worth a pince of shit!
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 22:46
  #3777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by McLimit View Post
mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.
Seriously, what are you talking about? WA is implementing the vaccine program from next week just like every other state in the nation.

If youíre trying to make a comparison to the use of a lockdown for a small number of cases (which every state has done btw) that argument has been done and dusted and itís time to move on.

It is the introduction of this vaccine that will change the environment that caused those lockdowns to be implemented.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 22:51
  #3778 (permalink)  
 
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Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 23:07
  #3779 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by McLimit View Post
Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.
Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. Itís not a hard concept to understand.

In response Iíll ask this: If you think the conspiracy is states will just continue to lock borders forever why are they bothering spending money and resources vaccinating people? Why not just keep borders closed forever and use the money elsewhere?

Funny thing is, is that in response to the latest Melbourne outbreak/lockdown WA wasnít even the strictest other state in response, SA implemented a hard border 48hrs prior to WA. And youíll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

Last edited by dr dre; 20th Feb 2021 at 23:58.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 00:35
  #3780 (permalink)  
 
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Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. It’s not a hard concept to understand.
Dude, read the health advice now, look at the damage that has been done in other health areas. Your 'not hard concept' may be understood by intelligent people but it doesn't seem to be understood by an epidemiologist that's looking at one problem in isolation.

conspiracy
Who said ANYTHING about a conspiracy?? Mate, I'm far removed from a Pete Evans. I'm looking at the broader picture. And I'm looking at behaviours.
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