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Air NZ pilot redundancies

Old 13th Apr 2020, 10:13
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Man Ardern and Foran really are a pair of misery guts..anytime anyone comes up with an idea or a proposal they shoot it down in flames..one wants to shrink the national economy and the other one wants to shrink the company he’s only just taken over by 30%..come hell or high water the two of them
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 20:48
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mattyj View Post
Man Ardern and Foran really are a pair of misery guts..anytime anyone comes up with an idea or a proposal they shoot it down in flames..one wants to shrink the national economy and the other one wants to shrink the company he’s only just taken over by 30%..come hell or high water the two of them
A Simon Bridges voter eh?
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 22:44
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Anti Skid On View Post
Local media are talking up a Trans-Tasman travel bubble, watch this space
Actually, the CEO of Auckland Airport was "talking up", actually I would have said "pleading for a Trans-Tasman travel bubble".
You can understand why: it would potentially provide a significant number of flights though his empty infrastructure, income from the car parking and taxi concessions, rental from the shops, etc. etc.

A.T.M. he's looking at a dozen half-empty flights a day, almost all the costs of running an international airport and almost no income.

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Old 14th Apr 2020, 02:43
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
A Simon Bridges voter eh?
Not much of a rebuttal is it? Got anything cogent?
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 04:22
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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There's no harm in ironing out the details of a possible Trans-Tasman bubble sometime in the future. As they say, Piss Poor Planning Promotes Piss Poor Performance.
But I can't blame them for not jumping on the idea at the request of the Airport Company. There's bigger fish to fry at the moment.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 05:19
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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I heard 300 pilots is the final number, those 300 to be offered redundancy payout with option to return at bottom of list or furlough with no payment but to retain seniority and pay on return. Those that remain will be on a reduced roster in return for a 14% pay cut.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 05:21
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Not a final number. The number is still being worked on. Other details are yet to be voted on.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 06:01
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RubberDogPoop View Post
Not much of a rebuttal is it? Got anything cogent?
Ardern, unlike most countries on the planet, wants to keep people alive at all costs...

So far Foran is making the right moves to keep the airline alive. If he succeeds then obviously he was the right choice for the position. If he fails it won't be for the want of trying.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 06:09
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I heard 300 pilots is the final number, those 300 to be offered redundancy payout with option to return at bottom of list or furlough with no payment but to retain seniority and pay on return. Those that remain will be on a reduced roster in return for a 14% pay cut.
then you heard wrong.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 06:22
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Furlough you forfeit your Redundancy Payout to retain service benefits and remain an employee on the Seniority list while effectively on LWOP. Your pay step is frozen while on Furlough but service benefits continue to accrue.
Redundancy you get paid out and your Seniority number is reserved. When/If re-employed all service benefits are reset and you're effectively a new hire Pilot.

Regardless of which option a Pilot chooses, it's last off first on so assuming all Pilots are re-hired, no one gains or loses Seniority by choosing one over the other.
Furlough cannot be forced by the Company. Once redundancy notices have been issued each Pilot will be given the choice.
A Pilot who chooses Furlough however, has 3 years to change their mind and take the Redundancy Payout so the Company must account for the debt,

The numbers are not finalized and nothing has been ratified yet.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 07:52
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by waren9 View Post
then you heard wrong.
It looks like it’ll be closer to 200, less if some old guys pull the pin early.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 07:52
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Will voluntary redundancy be offered?
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 08:09
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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How can it possibly be only 200 cuts when they are talking an airline thats only 30% the size of pre Covid? Wishful thinking................
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 08:30
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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It depends on how you look at the numbers.

The number published of 387 is the total reduction off today's Seniority list they want in 12 months time. Based on a predicted schedule.
There are about 110 Regional Pilots who, while on the Jet Seniority list, are still employed in the Regionals and are thus on "LWOP" from the Jets. So the actual reduction is ~280 Flying Pilots, this is before Retirements and other measures such as Early exits or LWOP are counted, so the actual number of Redundancies could be 200 or less (active Jet Pilots). The 110 Regional Pilots will also be "made redundant" if their number falls within the final number (most of them probably will), but it's mostly administrative as they'll retain their Regional Commands and will added back onto the Jet List in Seniority order.

A 30% reduction in the Airline does not necessarily equate to a 30% reduction in Pilots. Partly because we were short on Pilots to begin with, but also due to the logistical issues of downtraining. Add in some of the Manpower planning requirements the company has agreed to (still to be ratified by the Pilots), redundancies should be a lot less than 30% under the current forecasts.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 09:22
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Some good points but they are not talking a 30% reduction in the airline, that was the initial estimated of workforce reduction. Keeping in mind that was some time ago and things have worsened a heap since then. The forecast is a 70% reduction of the airline, so a 10-20% reduction of pilot resource does not match a 70% reduction of the airline overall. That is my point making the 200 number way off the mark?
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 09:35
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by myturn View Post
That is my point making the 200 number way off the mark?
I think by every metric it is way off the mark based on all the communications. For all sorts of reasons 200 is on the mark, for Jet, at this stage.

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that in a situation that is out of our control there will only ever be one wave of redundancies. Certainly I think everyone hopes there are the absolute minimum.

But Air New Zealand isn't planning to be 70% smaller in 12 months time.

​​
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 09:50
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Not suggesting thats the plan at all. It will be what it is but lets not think that 200 will cut it.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 14:07
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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We'll be back to 100% Capacity in 6 months... or was it 12 months? I could of sworn someone said 18 months... but then the last guy said 5 years, except his mate told him he was dreaming and we'll be a state owned Airline by years end?

No one knows, and anyone who claims otherwise is likely postulating for their own reasons. Many seem to relish in the doom and gloom of mass redundancies.

Personally, I prefer to deal with the facts as we have them today. I can't change tomorrow so why waste time arguing about it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Those are the numbers we have been given for the Jet Pilots only, the exact percentage of jobs lost in each department will vary. Sadly, those in less skilled areas will see greater cuts as with unemployment forecast to exceed 20% the company can replace them overnight when the time comes.
For Pilots, if Foran cuts too deep he'll ground the A320 fleet in the short term, then be forced to re-train all the Pilots he down-trained back to the 787 when COVID is behind us. Which it will be....eventually.

The Annual Wage bill for Jet pilots is ~$230mil. Obviously the company want to reduce it, but even if they halved it, that wouldn't save the Airline if things don't improve (and the logistics of doing so would be crippling). They're simply planning for the Airline they want to be when this is over. How long they'll carry some fat in the ranks is anyone's guess.

Make no mistake however, if things don't improve, when the share price bottoms out and we're on the verge of bankruptcy, that's when they Government will re-acquire the Airline, not before. Until then, I'd say we're stuck with the current terms of the agreed Loan. If the decision is made to revert the loan to $900mil Capital investment, the Government will want to do it when the share price has tanked, as it did in 2001/2.
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 20:48
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Well the government holds all the cards..they own a controlling interest of 52% of the company and they have total control of the border and domestic travel..on the one hand they’re peeling mega dollars off the value of their investment, on the other hand they’re making it easier when the time comes, to renationalize the shell of the remaining company

incidently, the Auckland City Council is seeing their fat interest in Auckland International Airport dissolve in front of their eyes
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Old 14th Apr 2020, 21:49
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by myturn View Post
How can it possibly be only 200 cuts when they are talking an airline thats only 30% the size of pre Covid? Wishful thinking................
Where is this BS coming from? The quote from Foran on the multiple livestreams I have watched is that "we will be 30% SMALLER post-Covid". (Note that is post-Covid - not "by Xmas", "in a years time", or "in 18 months". THAT is what the manpower plan is based on, at the moment.) That is an airline that is SEVENTY % of its original size. At Xmas they have suggested we could be 20%-50% of the airline we were in January 2020. Not one of these total guesses relates to an airline that is only 30% the size.
Where on earth is this 70% figure generated from myturn - you must be privy to figures no one in the company has heard....
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