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C130 down NE Cooma

Old 25th Jan 2020, 05:29
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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That image looking forward along the line of impact is very worrying.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 05:45
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Can't imagine being part of the first responders to this just awful accident -( Those people would be traumatised am sure! Most of us should be grateful we don't get exposed to that level of tragedy.
RIP to the guys still on patrol fighting Mother Nature -(
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 05:47
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone tell me if the experience requirements to operate as a LAT or VLAT pilot are the same as a SEAT pilot, ie. Agricultural Rating, Fire Endorsement? Seeing that BAE-146 (or Avro) nearly buy the farm in the US this year made me think that the kind of low level experience that keeps you alive on a truly miserable and challenging day may be missing in favor of the multi-crew and time on type experience that the agencies require.

Condolences to the families, grieving a thousand miles away.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 05:54
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Just went over the A-DSB from https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N134CG
the most probable wing failure occurred at 1980 meters, thats quite
a fair distance above the ground.
Towards the end, there is a pitch change, that follows what appears to be
G force stresses on the wings.
More evidence that points directly at a Wing Failure as being the cause
of the accident.
Throw in the dubious history of this aircraft and it appears to have
been an accident going to happen.
Given the post that J3 was replying to I can't agree that it was over the top Porter, but that's just me.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:16
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Thats because its in an active fire area - where access is controlled to stop aimless rubber neckers. Its also an official accident site on private property. People cant visit and make silly statements about what why and how... Just the professionals.....
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:18
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Nevermind.

Last edited by RickNRoll; 25th Jan 2020 at 06:36.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:28
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Here's better quality drone footage supplied by NSW Police to the ABC News, than the mobile phone news images supplied by Numpty Aussie.
All photos, and the video, are enlargeable.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-...fires/11900654
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:40
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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From the photos, 1 thing we can say is that the accident occurred at a relatively low angle, definitely didn't plummet into the ground.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:45
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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The footage makes all the speculation about in-flight breakup and ADS-B data redundant. It reminds me of the images from the Erebus debris field.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 07:02
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SCPL_1988 View Post
In this accident, the A-DSB record shows what appears to be severe turbulence stresses followed by what appears to be a break up or a crash.
Out of interest, which of the 11 ADS-B plots covering the last 5 minutes of the flight (i.e. at about 30 second intervals, on average) do you believe shows "severe turbulence" ?
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 07:08
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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lookleft agreed but can't find enough engines. Two are obvious.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 08:06
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by logansi View Post
From the photos, 1 thing we can say is that the accident occurred at a relatively low angle, definitely didn't plummet into the ground.


When I first had the news pop up on my phone I pictured that video from 2002 - but now I'm picturing that RJ-85 video from last year.

It's hard to tell from that picture how much of a slope up there is at the site - some pictures make it look quite steep. How does the terrain height at the impact site compare to where they dropped?

Last edited by Kiwiconehead; 25th Jan 2020 at 08:58.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 08:55
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Is the gofundme anyone from here or able to shed light on it if its legit

https://www.gofundme.com/f/coulson-t...-memorial-fund
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 09:03
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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It shows just how fine the tolerances are between a "close call" and an accident with multiple fatalities.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 09:45
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kiwiconehead View Post


When I first had the news pop up on my phone I pictured that video from 2002 - but now I'm picturing that RJ-85 video from last year.

It's hard to tell from that picture how much of a slope up there is at the site - some pictures make it look quite steep. How does the terrain height at the impact site compare to where they dropped?
If you can determine the crash location, you might be able to find the topographic map here: https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/etopo.html
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 11:20
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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The cause of the crash may never be known, simply because we have no data and probably never will, for those forces, ash and debris directly above a fire storm. One can only begin to imagine. The resultant impact is likely to be one of four things, structural failure, down/back draught, CFIT, Stall. These bushfires are unprecedented and all those putting themselves in harms way fighting them are very brave people indeed.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 13:08
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
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A tragic site / sight. My condolences to all suffering a loss in this accident.

I wonder what investigations have been done on the configuration and intensity of the turbulence induced by a large fire. and the hazard associated with the extreme temperatures, however transient they may be, as well as the sudden major changes in air density and composition.. How ,much oxygen is around to maintain engine power? In a large fire, these hazards may not be transient. I also wonder whether G meters and G limits are used to help limit aerodynamic loading.

I am not about to make any predictions re the outcome of any investigation.,

So whatever the causes and contributing causes happen to be undoubtedly there will be a large number of factors involving the aircraft, pilots, environment, maintenance in a very complex interaction -. There will be many "layers of cheese" in which the "holes have lined up" and hopefully, a useful, complex lesson of their interaction will emerge so that this kind of accident is not repeated.. .
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 14:39
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SCPL_1988 View Post
agread, As information comes out, it changes the most probable cause.
Which is why everyone was saying wait, rather than speculate; it eliminates unnecessary fear mongering, stress to people related to the incident, and incorrect attribution of the reasons for the accident.

Originally Posted by SCPL_1988 View Post
At first there was just ADSB which is disturbing and so far
only a few have commented on in flight stresses.
in flight stress may, or may not be relevant. But at the moment no one knows.

Originally Posted by SCPL_1988 View Post
In this accident, the A-DSB record shows
what appears to be severe turbulence stresses followed by what appears to be a break up or a crash.
Id love for you to validate your claims. Now that more evidence is out (imagery) it appears in further on posts you are changing your tune. Will you apologise if your original theory is incorrect?




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Old 25th Jan 2020, 14:46
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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dronephoto

Crash location

I Think this is the position. Some 1.5 km from last ADS-B.
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Old 25th Jan 2020, 16:20
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AAKEE View Post
I think this is the position. Some 1.5 km from last ADS-B.
Last ADS-B per FlightAware was slightly further north than shown: S 3559'46" E 14922'12"
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