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Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment - Quartz

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Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment - Quartz

Old 5th Nov 2019, 02:14
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Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment - Quartz

QF hiring more female pilots leads to more victims of sexual harassment in the #MeToo era:

Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment

Natasha Frost
Quartz November 4, 2019
Australian airline Qantas has lofty ambitions to increase the number of women in its cockpits.

In 2017, it launched the Nancy Bird Walton initiative, named for the
pioneering female pilot, and committed to having women make up at least 20% of its 2018 pilot intake. Within the next decade, the airline said, at least 40% of its new pilot hires will be female. It’s a big jump: As of earlier this year, around 250 of Qantas’ 4,000 pilots were women. But behind the scenes, according to an independent survey of 2,400 Qantas pilots and cabin crew, there are significant costs for these female pilots. Some said they experienced a backlash against the campaign, and were forced to bear the brunt of their male colleagues’ ire.

While one in four Qantas employees had experienced sexual harassment in the past year from a coworker or passenger, female pilots reported
the highest rates of sexual harassment and bullying, according to The Australian, which obtained the Qantas report. In some cases, that bullying includes sexist comments, which two-thirds of female pilots found “common,” or suggestions that they had been given their jobs because of their gender, rather than on merit.

Until 2016, female Qantas pilots had to
wear men’s uniforms. Their uniforms may fit better now, but the atmosphere in the cockpit can still be uncomfortable, as one anonymous commenter observed in the report: “The men are always telling stories about female pilots. As soon as a female pilot makes a mistake, it’s as if all female pilots are bad or hopeless.” Other airline colleagues noted a culture of “what happens on tour stays on tour,” where whistle-blowers are made to feel like trouble-makers or “put through the absolute ringer” (sic) for speaking out. Qantas did not immediately respond to a request for comment.Female pilots face comparable challenges worldwide, with harassment and discrimination reported at airlines in Canada, the US, and the UK.

In the US, pilots have the
greatest adjusted gender pay gap of all professions, according to a Glassdoor report, with a 27% gap in base pay. Surprisingly, this gap appears to be widening. In an email, Geoff Murray, a former commercial pilot and current Oliver Wyman aerospace consultant, said this disparity is probably the result of a lack of seniority among female pilots, who tend to be newer recruits. The first woman employed as a pilot in the US, Emily Warner, was hired as recently as 1973, he said: even now, women make up about 6% of all US commercial pilots. The numbers are gradually creeping up, however: In 2018, 7,136 women were certified to fly as airline pilots in the US, up 26% from 2009, out of a total of 99,880.

With aviation facing unprecedented growth, airlines are moving fast to head off a growing shortage of pilots. Many have concluded that women are the answer, and adopted similar policies accordingly: Virgin Australia
last year announced that it would be aiming for gender parity among its 2019 cadets. But despite these initiatives, it’s still rare to hear a woman’s voice over the public address system. More concerning is how many of the old guard seem to prefer it that way.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/qanta...194051247.html
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 02:30
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Any announcement of gender parity in the cabin crew ranks? In the hangar? Check in staff? Bag loaders? ...
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 02:45
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While one in four Qantas employees had experienced sexual harassment in the past year from a coworker or passenger, female pilots reported the highest rates of sexual harassment and bullying, according to The Australian, which obtained the Qantas report.
That is a very poorly written or simply incorrect summary of the report’s findings.
The report stated:
• Around 1 in 4 male and female cabin crew reported experiencing sexual harassment from a colleague in the past 12 months. (Similar to national average.)
• Female pilots were three times more likely than male pilots to experience sexual harassment from a colleague, with over 1 in 4 female pilots reporting experiences of sexual harassment in the past 12 months.
• Instances of bullying among cabin crew was significantly higher than among pilots. Around 1 in 4 cabin crew reported experiencing bullying in the last 12 months compared to around 1 in 10 pilots. Female pilots were twice as likely to report experiencing bullying
So female pilots are sexually harassed at the same rate as cabin crew and at similar rates to the national average. Female pilots are bullied significantly less than cabin crew.

Don’t get me wrong, ANY harassment or bullying is inexcusable and we should absolutely target a 0% occurrence rate. But the study does not show pilots to be worse than the rest of the airline or worse than the national average. We should strive to be better but the article feels like it is painting pilots in an unfair light.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 02:56
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Who says 50% of women want to be a pilot? Do 50% of men want to be nurses, hairdressers, beauticians etc?
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 03:02
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 03:43
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Amazing.

Most want or accept the special treatment to get in then expect to be treated the same as the rest that had to battle.

The jokes and the assumptions were always going to follow once gendar targets/quotas were allowed.

I’d like to see some other percentages.
Maybe the amount of females that apply to the amount that get in, let’s take it one further and compare assessment day results. I know girls that have came out of sims crying (some laughing) as they believe they‘ve just butchered every component of their sim...had their letter of offer a few weeks later.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 04:00
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How interesting.

There is no place for harassment or intimidation of any sort in any workplace.


Consider this..
Sunrise looks doomed.

Short and Long Haul EBA's are front and centre.

To facilitate the above, a requirement for pilots to be the bad guys in the eyes of the public.

QF pilots are now portrayed as misogynistic workplace bullies.

I can see where this is going.........
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 04:04
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There needs to be acceptance in the general population that Aviation is hard for everybody, it's not because you are a girl that it is hard and somehow you need special treatment.

The problem with this whole quota issue is that it drives resentment from men and woman who made alot of sacrifices and put up with alot just to get into an airline.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 04:08
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Originally Posted by Flyboy1987 View Post
Maybe the amount of females that apply to the amount that get in, let’s take it one further and compare assessment day results. I know girls that have came out of sims crying (some laughing) as they believe they‘ve just butchered every component of their sim...had their letter of offer a few weeks later.



What's your point? I've known plenty of male pilots (myself included) who've also come out of an assessment believing that we've stuffed it up and don't have a chance of getting the job, but then were successful. Maybe we're just humble and too hard on how we performed for such an important event?

And plenty of pilots (male and female) who've come out of a recruiting assessment loudly proclaiming they totally aced it, and are guaranteed of a job. And when the rejection letter arrives it wasn't their fault, the recruiters were too biased/stupid/blind to see their obvious brilliance...

Last edited by dr dre; 5th Nov 2019 at 04:24.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 05:58
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Originally Posted by 34R View Post
How interesting.

There is no place for harassment or intimidation of any sort in any workplace.


Consider this..
Sunrise looks doomed.

Short and Long Haul EBA's are front and centre.

To facilitate the above, a requirement for pilots to be the bad guys in the eyes of the public.

QF pilots are now portrayed as misogynistic workplace bullies.

I can see where this is going.........
With well placed stories in the daily rags lamenting the "lack of agreement" on the "amazing Project Sunrise" pilots ought realise that this is now open season.

Obstructionist, kamikaze and now misogynist.

That airlines have a "gender inbalance" is ironically due to the reality that there actually are less women in aviation. Also less in some trades and under representation in the armed forces in some areas.
Is it that women choose other vocations? Yes, quite often it is. The US BLS conducted a long term longitudinal study in "the gender pay gap" finding a small one existed. The cause of it likely to be choice: Women were traditionally attracted to roles with less remuneration.

When the CEO openly states that it is now policy to hire more women pilots is it a surprise that there are more women pilots?

Didn't Qantas have a whole course of female pilots for International Women's day?
What an "amazing" coincidence that despite under representation in the industry, "the best pilots Qantas had on hold all happen to be women, all on International Women's day"

Once it was merit, now gender apparently matters.
Discrimination fixes apparent discrimination.
The mind boggles as to the crewing arrangement should these pilots decide that they would also like children.

Last edited by Rated De; 5th Nov 2019 at 06:13.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:05
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Originally Posted by 34R View Post
How interesting.

There is no place for harassment or intimidation of any sort in any workplace.


Consider this..
Sunrise looks doomed.

Short and Long Haul EBA's are front and centre.

To facilitate the above, a requirement for pilots to be the bad guys in the eyes of the public.

QF pilots are now portrayed as misogynistic workplace bullies.

I can see where this is going.........
This in spades

I would hope for no harassment of any kind but it's rather astounding to have it reported just now. Who would thunkd it
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:08
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By definition, the alleged Qantas target for gender representation means that qualified male candidates will be passed over in favor of female candidates that meet threshold minimum requirements until such time as the target is deemed to be achieved. Basic maths.

That means also by definition that males with equal or higher skill levels than women will be rejected.

BUT after a year and or two on the job I believe there should be no measurable difference in performance PROVIDED training and assessment standards are uniformly applied.

If they aren’t, Qantas female pilots are going to destroy its safety record in the name of gender equity.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:11
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
This in spades

I would hope for no harassment of any kind but it's rather astounding to have it reported just now. Who would thunkd it
It is contract season after all.


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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:21
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Women were traditionally attracted to roles with less remuneration.
I guess that there is a pay gap between the CEO and the CP.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:30
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
With well placed stories in the daily rags lamenting the "lack of agreement" on the "amazing Project Sunrise" pilots ought realise that this is now open season.

Obstructionist, kamikaze and now misogynist.
It does make a good conspiracy theory, and it does look like there is more to Sunrise than the official company line, but rest assured if management want to can it commissioning a year long independent study into work practices for the sole purpose to put the blame onto a group of your employees it isn't necessary. There are solid reasons to deal with potential harassment and bullying issues amongst all employee groups.

Didn't Qantas have a whole course of female pilots for International Women's day?
No. The course that started in the month of IWD this year (March) was 50% female. The course that started previously was 100% male, the course that started after was 95% male. Overall I'm told unofficially the % of new hire females is roughly similar to the percentage of female applicants.

The mind boggles as to the crewing arrangement should these pilots decide that they would also like children.
Also been unofficially told that over the course of a pilots career male pilots are more likely to take extended periods off work due injury and illness than female pilots due pregnancy. The thought being men, especially older men, have higher rates of chronic illness and and younger men are more likely to undertake extreme and adventure sports that make them more prone to long term injury.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 06:34
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I read both the black widow and hailstones emails.

They are going to need a scalp, and need one soon

Just for men will be decidedly nervous right now.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 07:02
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How can you be sexually harassed in these days of gender fluidity?

On a serious note I have a close friend who job is to recruit more women for the ADF. She has complained about the level of entitlement of young women these days who, fully aware of their desirability in the virtue signalling game, act as if their recruitment and preferential advancement into the ADF is but assured.

Other tensions arise from the assumption that women on promotional lists are there for quota purposes; which infuriates those who got there on merit.

The same applies in QF; those most loudly decrying these quotas are the old school female pilots. It's No Win from all perspectives.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 07:07
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[QUOTE



No. The course that started in the month of IWD this year (March) was 50% female. The course that started previously was 100% male, the course that started after was 95% male. Overall I'm told unofficially the % of new hire females is roughly similar to the percentage of female applicants.
.[/QUOTE]

QLINK had a full intake of females during IWD.
I believe some were even flown into Sydney the week before ground school for photos.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 07:08
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Also been unofficially told that over the course of a pilots career male pilots are more likely to take extended periods off work due injury and illness than female pilots due pregnancy. The thought being men, especially older men, have higher rates of chronic illness and and younger men are more likely to undertake extreme and adventure sports that make them more prone to long term injury.
Thats probably true but in my experience a large percentage of women drop by the wayside over the span of the average career. Few seem to want to be 60 year old pilots.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 07:19
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Originally Posted by RU/16 View Post
Who says 50% of women want to be a pilot? Do 50% of men want to be nurses, hairdressers, beauticians etc?
Ah, no one? Literally no one is saying that.
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