Jetstar EBA 2019
With all the talk of flight cancellations in the press at present, 10% they are saying. What is the normal cancellation rate for JQ when there isn’t any industrial action? They are renowned for cancelling flights on a good day.
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Because that would be about right, maybe even worse.
When you’re up in cruise, read your EBA (likely your first time) regarding the bit about seniority and reflect on how many crews (full compliment) per airframe an airline may have. A 787 would sit around 8 crews per frame.
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I’m over the whole thing. We threatened PIA to try and get the company to negotiate properly (like we did successfully in 2015) and it has had the opposite effect. What are we fighting for exactly now? The union has agreed to 3%. We’re essentially arguing over the costing of a minimum daily credit. I’d sign the current EBA plus 3 per cent increases tomorrow just to have this disaster behind me.
I’m over the whole thing. We threatened PIA to try and get the company to negotiate properly (like we did successfully in 2015) and it has had the opposite effect. What are we fighting for exactly now? The union has agreed to 3%. We’re essentially arguing over the costing of a minimum daily credit. I’d sign the current EBA plus 3 per cent increases tomorrow just to have this disaster behind me.
This thing just started FFS and already you want to to take your bat and go home? No wonder airline managers laugh at pilots.
Disaster? I don't think you really understand the full implications that are going on here mate.
When the union or reps have sent out emails saying "if you have any questions call us", have you actually done that? If not I would highly recommend you do.
When the union or reps have sent out emails saying "if you have any questions call us", have you actually done that? If not I would highly recommend you do.
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Those who think we will now be rewarded for taking strike action are kidding themselves. The circle jerk of empty rhetoric and anger might make people feel good about what they’re doing but the reality is this fight was lost before it even started. We’re in the crosshairs of Qantas IR now. More strike action will only entrench managements resolve to f@ck us over and make examples of us to the other work groups (especially QF short haul and long haul).
Having taken part in industrial action at a couple of different airlines and the above sentiments are very common. Anyone who was fooled into thinking the company would just layover and give in loses motivation at the first sign of resistance. The company have fired enough warning shots across the bow now to freak out those who aren’t 100% committed. This is now the true test, who continues with the current action and who will carry on the action after Xmas. It is always the risk with PIA, if the pilot body starts to fracture then it hands the company the upper hand in negotiations at the union has no dry powder left in the arsenal. Here’s hoping the pilot body see’s it through and doesn’t hamstring the negotiators.
Those who think we will now be rewarded for taking strike action are kidding themselves. The circle jerk of empty rhetoric and anger might make people feel good about what they’re doing but the reality is this fight was lost before it even started. We’re in the crosshairs of Qantas IR now. More strike action will only entrench managements resolve to f@ck us over and make examples of us to the other work groups (especially QF short haul and long haul).
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thats actually pretty funny, credit where credit is due!
But, im just a line pilot looking at this whole situation getting out of control. If I thought PIA would get us a decent pay rise and increase in lifestyle, I’d be all for it. But the way things have played out I just can’t see that happening. I hope I’m wrong!
But, im just a line pilot looking at this whole situation getting out of control. If I thought PIA would get us a decent pay rise and increase in lifestyle, I’d be all for it. But the way things have played out I just can’t see that happening. I hope I’m wrong!
Having taken part in industrial action at a couple of different airlines and the above sentiments are very common. Anyone who was fooled into thinking the company would just layover and give in loses motivation at the first sign of resistance. The company have fired enough warning shots across the bow now to freak out those who aren’t 100% committed. This is now the true test, who continues with the current action and who will carry on the action after Xmas. It is always the risk with PIA, if the pilot body starts to fracture then it hands the company the upper hand in negotiations at the union has no dry powder left in the arsenal. Here’s hoping the pilot body see’s it through and doesn’t hamstring the negotiators.
I honestly believe there will be loses through this PIA, but the names at the top of the list are all management.
What a horrible failure on behalf of management for letting this situation get to PIA.
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Unfortunately, as Jetstar has had an incredibly rapid expansion, it is difficult for many of the pilots there to understand the broader macro narrative at play here.
Steady declines in remuneration have been the observed pattern from "bargained" outcomes for pretty much 30 years.
Living standards right across the board have declined too. To maintain parity many people from many industries have borrowed impressive amounts of money to keep up.
If one has been fortunate enough to have entered JQ in the rapid expansion period, it is easy to imagine thinking that such expansion and promotion is the normal.
Jetstar suited all sorts of QR IR objectives. Suited (past tense) is the operative word as their cost base has migrated, the penetration of their constant growth strategy has found natural limits and Low Fare Airlines are notoriously hard work.
Mr Evans is rightly sweating on operating margins as they are tight. Axiomatically, he is sweating out of self-interest: His ascent to QF CEO is dependent on maintaining the approval of the King Maker sitting in the big chair in Coward Street.
To actually understand what is at play in the industry requires a little more understanding of the industry ebbs and flows, well before Jetstar's formation.
Steady declines in remuneration have been the observed pattern from "bargained" outcomes for pretty much 30 years.
Living standards right across the board have declined too. To maintain parity many people from many industries have borrowed impressive amounts of money to keep up.
If one has been fortunate enough to have entered JQ in the rapid expansion period, it is easy to imagine thinking that such expansion and promotion is the normal.
Jetstar suited all sorts of QR IR objectives. Suited (past tense) is the operative word as their cost base has migrated, the penetration of their constant growth strategy has found natural limits and Low Fare Airlines are notoriously hard work.
Mr Evans is rightly sweating on operating margins as they are tight. Axiomatically, he is sweating out of self-interest: His ascent to QF CEO is dependent on maintaining the approval of the King Maker sitting in the big chair in Coward Street.
To actually understand what is at play in the industry requires a little more understanding of the industry ebbs and flows, well before Jetstar's formation.
I’m over the whole thing. We threatened PIA to try and get the company to negotiate properly (like we did successfully in 2015) and it has had the opposite effect. What are we fighting for exactly now? The union has agreed to 3%. We’re essentially arguing over the costing of a minimum daily credit. I’d sign the current EBA plus 3 per cent increases tomorrow just to have this disaster behind me.
What Simon wants next is for the negotiation to continue. At this stage it’s not. We are currently sitting in the company defensive stage. The next stage is hopefully negotiation, however, if it took Tiger 4 months to get to this stage. It can take 12 months, 24 months for all I care. Will it cost us an executive or two along the way, probably, but I doubt anyone cares. There isn’t going to be another chance in the future should the pilot body give in right now, to the company. They will just use it against us in the future.
Tiger was was the same albeit not as public. Tiger Management started talking about 4 months into PIA. It then took 3 odd months of negotiating to arrive at the conclusion. It’s fairly clear it’s going to take longer here, but I think we all saw that coming.
Have some patience. Otherwise those TT and VA pilots will be earning 20% more than us for eternity. The gap will only get larger. A Tiger and Virgin pilot will earn 25% more than a Jetstar pilot mid next decade if you sign today. Think about that.
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I think you should all quickly sign up to the package that the CEO is offering.
Captains on $300,000 and work 30% less!
Sounds like an awesome deal to me.
As that’s what he’s been publicly offering, I’d grab it!!!
Captains on $300,000 and work 30% less!
Sounds like an awesome deal to me.
As that’s what he’s been publicly offering, I’d grab it!!!
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PIA is such a destructive tool. Costs the employer money. Costs the employees jobs. Disrupts the very customers that keep the company alive and effectively pay the employees wages. Its a lose - lose situation.
The real question is, how bad are the negotiators that they have allowed the situation to deteriorate to this level? It really is a damming for the Union negotiators. A good negotiator would have found the middle ground without the need for PIA. How bad are the negotiators that they have set the expectations of a deal on their side at a level that cannot be achieved?
Terrible terrible negotiation skills.
No one is going to win here.
Dont let commonsense get in the way of your emotional outbursts.....lol
The real question is, how bad are the negotiators that they have allowed the situation to deteriorate to this level? It really is a damming for the Union negotiators. A good negotiator would have found the middle ground without the need for PIA. How bad are the negotiators that they have set the expectations of a deal on their side at a level that cannot be achieved?
Terrible terrible negotiation skills.
No one is going to win here.
Dont let commonsense get in the way of your emotional outbursts.....lol
In my opinion, if whathisname eventually wants Joyces job, then he will have to convince the investors that he is at least as tough on unions as Joyce proved to be. Anything less than complete victory for management is unacceptable.
Considering that Joyce shut the airline to screw over the engineers, I assume that a similar grandstanding event is available to QF already because that would allow them to use their most potent weapon - the QF group public relations team who have their hooks embedded into every media organisation in the country. Think tearful stranded pax on morning TV - and its all the fault of greedy, lazy, Jetstar pilots. Then expect thunderous threats from ScoMo.
Be prepared for it.
Considering that Joyce shut the airline to screw over the engineers, I assume that a similar grandstanding event is available to QF already because that would allow them to use their most potent weapon - the QF group public relations team who have their hooks embedded into every media organisation in the country. Think tearful stranded pax on morning TV - and its all the fault of greedy, lazy, Jetstar pilots. Then expect thunderous threats from ScoMo.
Be prepared for it.