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Qantas Short Haul 2019 EA Negotiations (EA 8)

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Qantas Short Haul 2019 EA Negotiations (EA 8)

Old 9th Jul 2019, 22:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 754
So as far as I’m told, sign off reduced by 15 minutes and no minimum daily credit for 5 x 3%. Holding back pay and the bonus over your head. Hope the short haul pilots vote it down.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 22:43
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Pilots are still wearing all the risk. The negotiated outcome dances around the issue. DPC is a good idea but 50% isnít enough. No protection for day of ops cancellations. No protection for training displacements. No minimum daily credit. And a base pay less than 54hrs a month.

The window dressing will be magnificent, but in terms of risk vs reward, the status quo remains...pilots wear all the risk in this EA, in a cyclical industry where the next downturn is never far away.

Good personal leave outcome nevertheless! Itís going to be an interesting vote.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:52
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DeShire
Posts: 74
Protections need to be in place before commencing a pattern.
Could be that Qantas just make an earlier call on cancelling sectors or days work prior to even signing on.
What im saying is then you could potentially only get DPC 50% of 50-80%.
Incentive for the company to just notify you prior to duty or day before of sector losses rather than wait and tell you during day of ops.
MGH not addressed is not acceptable
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 01:28
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Oz
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post


Thatís 40k out. Yes there is the CIP but that still wonít get you anywhere near 225k. If one did 950 credit hours a year, and you add in 10k for allowances, that would require an hourly rate of $226. Reality is an hourly rate of $180-185.

why be so misleading?


Yeah, no worries man
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 02:31
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
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to start with most FO’s are on $225,000 gross
From QF payroll:

The average FO 737 gross figure was ... $199,270


That payslip shown is right on the highest for the year....and not indicative of the average worker....(with a life)

With an hourly rate of $195...times that by 1000 hours, you get to...$195000 only. Allowances, CIP. You are an outlier. Nowhere near average. But congratulations.


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Old 10th Jul 2019, 02:36
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post


From QF payroll:

The average FO 737 gross figure was ... $199,270


That payslip shown is right on the highest for the year....and not indicative of the average worker....(with a life)

would you like a copy of my roster and we can compare, lives?
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 02:42
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 287
Put your payslip away Nathan
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 02:42
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
No.

I care about honest figures instead of faceless written diarrhoea deliberately distorting the facts

I don’t disagree with some of your general points nevertheless. We all do what’s best for our circumstances.. I shouldn’t have added in (that bit).


Last edited by crosscutter; 10th Jul 2019 at 03:06.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:19
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 289
B737 FO salary. Year 3 pay. Division 3 super. I donít have my name in the book. I donít swap trips chasing hours. Includes 8 weeks in total (2 x 4 week blocks) of annual leave.
Seems more representative of Ďaverageí FO pay. Take home pay of ~$137k.
(To clarify - the Ďdeductionsí includes all salary sacrifice & salary disbursement to other accounts, so take home pay was ~$137K)

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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:21
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 289
The number on my payslip is pretty close to the ‘average’ B737 FO pay as per the infamous screenshot that was circulating recently...
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:26
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Does this include Super?
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:32
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 506
Super should be on another line. Iíve not see a payslip inclusive of super in total net/gross
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:39
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DeShire
Posts: 74
Personally I think itís a stupid idea to post payslips on a public forum.
But super is included in gross pay top RHS on payslips. So that figure is bonus allowances super the lot.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:52
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
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Personally I think itís a stupid idea to post payslips on a public forum
+1

Arguably the most insidious part of this proposal seems to be 5/6 day international trips, without any of the protections of Long Haul (5:30MDC, Pattern Protection and MBT to name a few). One would hope thereís more detail to it in the draft EA when it comes out, but based on past experiences you can only imagine how the company might like to Ďinterpretí anything not set in stone.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:33
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
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absolutely...especially so looking forward....with a new type that could potentially fly an extra hour or so...if you were the company... you'd be trying to transfer as much medium haul flying to the SHEA as possible.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 11:26
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post


+1

Arguably the most insidious part of this proposal seems to be 5/6 day international trips, without any of the protections of Long Haul (5:30MDC, Pattern Protection and MBT to name a few). One would hope there’s more detail to it in the draft EA when it comes out, but based on past experiences you can only imagine how the company might like to ‘interpret’ anything not set in stone.
Like personal leave at 76 hours of duty and deciding that taking duty hours rostered from the total reducing the intended sick/personal leave required under FWA.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 00:34
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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We’re bringing a butter knife to a drone fight. ��

No offence to our trusty little knife, but in this modern age of industrial warfare, it’s a vastly inferior weapon. It’s no wonder we get wiped off the map every time... Pilots should stick to flying and let the pros negotiate our futures.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 00:44
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by OhForSure View Post
Weíre bringing a butter knife to a drone fight. ��

No offence to our trusty little knife, but in this modern age of industrial warfare, itís a vastly inferior weapon. Itís no wonder we get wiped off the map every time... Pilots should stick to flying and let the pros negotiate our futures.
As is understood broadly, having employees removed from the process protects the employee and ensures that nothing is agreed to in haste.
That is why the other side always has their faceless team behind a 'judas sheep' (like a former Union President parachuted in as an IR negotiator) while behind the curtain IR drive their agenda.
That Tiger pilots secured a very much better outcome suggests that a redistribution is overdue.
That pilots think they must somehow represent themselves when their opponent uses teams of IR behind the curtain is incredible.

To what position will the current 'team' of negotiators be 'promoted' to in management for their acquiescence?
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 02:14
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
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That Tiger pilots secured a very much better outcome suggests that a redistribution is overdue.
That pilots think they must somehow represent themselves when their opponent uses teams of IR behind the curtain is incredible.
You are clearly trying to suggest a link here that I dare say you have no evidence for. So did AFAP use pilot negotiators or external professional negotiators to secure their new EA gains?
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 03:08
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 169
I’ve always thought we should have professional negotiators since I joined AIPA. However to be fair to the people who put in the time they are generally bashing their heads against a brick wall. You can only negotiate if the company are willing to, and Qantas isn’t, why would they? They like the short haul award as it is. The only two things they would want is contactability (something SH pilots won’t give up) and the ability to roster longer trips. Without forcing the companies hand, all the things the pilots want will never happen.
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