Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 16th Jun 2019, 05:23
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Err, no we did not. The airports are LEASED by the federal government to private companies.


https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/av...ort/index.aspx
While yes they have been leased, they have also been privatised and the leases sold for basically 99 years similar to Darwin port - they are no longer public assets.

The same will be the way of the rest of the transport networks, they will be sold for 99 years - that number just so people can say "we did not SELL them" just leased them.

Leasing has great tax benefits!
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 01:56
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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This may be much closer than previously considered.

A U.S. startup is preparing to fly a full-scale, five-seat electric vertical-takeoff-and-landing (eVTOL) aircraft that is powered not by batteries or hybrid-electric propulsion, but by hydrogen fuel cells. The result is a vehicle the developers say can fly for 4 hr.up to 400 mi. between cities and not the short hops envisioned for urban air taxis.

FAA certification of the Skai has been underway for 10 months, says Brian Morrison, president and co-founder of Massachusetts-based Alaka’i Technologies. Founded in 2015, the startup is aiming for FAA Part 21.17b certification in 2020 and is funded through to production by a single investor, he says
Skai

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Old 28th Jun 2019, 04:45
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Great idea! Until the first hydrogen cell pops....
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 04:53
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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FAA certification MAY BE 10 months down the track BUT there's no evidence they've even built a prototype.

That video seems to be more aimed at sucking in investors, even though apparently it is already fully funded.

Words like:
"Take off and land just about anywhere", - I wonder what the neighbours will think about that?
"Accessible to everyone", - I doubt it will be cheap, therefore unlikely to be accessible to everyone.
"A radically simple solution that reduces complexity" Simpler, less complex than a helicopter? - There's six rotors, motors and their controllers to start with.
"Hydrogen provides 10 X the energy of current technologies and leaves nothing behind but pure water." - They don't mention the cost of producing hydrogen.
Allows us to ride in the third dimension and turning our daily commute into a fascinating experience" - Selling the impractical dream.
"It's here today." - So where are videos of it flying passengers?

Basically a slick promotion from someone with a lot of money pursuing an expensive folly.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 05:46
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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The same will be the way of the rest of the transport networks, they will be sold for 99 years - that number just so people can say "we did not SELL them" just leased them.
Sorry I completely disagree with your prediction. Australian governments already feel the heat when they plan for a toll road. Some states do not even have toll roads. So the idea of selling off a whole transport network is far fetched.

Basically a slick promotion from someone with a lot of money pursuing an expensive folly.
Totally agree. Now if that video showed even the rotors turning or the machine hovering six inches off the ground I may be more enthusiastic.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 06:50
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Skai


2709: very negative thinking similar to a certain group of indigenous peoples who really never got much past inventing a stick however, if one goes to the company link, read all including the links to other authorities and information there is much to be learned.

Hydrogen production is much greater than previously thought accompanied by a rapidly reducing cost.
There are a number of other companies working along the same concept some equally advanced.


FLYING CAR STARTUP ALAKA'I BETS HYDROGEN CAN OUTDO BATTERIESNew aviation startup Alaka’i says its Skai aircraft will be able to fly for up to four hours and cover 400 miles on a single load of fuel, which can be replenished in 10 minutes at a hydrogen fueling station.ALAKA'I TECHNOLOGIES
HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS have had a hard time making inroads as power sources for ground-based electric vehicles, but things are starting to look up for the zero-emission propulsion tech. A new air taxi startup, Alaka’i Technologies, this week unveiled a liquid-hydrogen-powered, five-passenger electric aircraft that it claims will be more efficient and powerful than the battery-powered aircraft its many, many competitors are developing.

The Massachusetts-based “flying car” company, led by veterans of NASA, Raytheon, Airbus, Boeing, and the Department of Defense, unveiled a mock-up of the six-rotor aircraft, called Skai, in Los Angeles at the offices of BMW Designworks, with which it partnered on the aircraft’s design. Alaka’i says the final product will be able to fly for up to four hours and cover 400 miles on a single load of fuel, which can be replenished in 10 minutes at a hydrogen fueling station. It has built a functional, full-scale prototype that will make its first flight “imminently,” a spokesperson says.

It won't be the first fuel-cell-powered plane; Boeing made that happen in 2008. But it would be the first of its kind. Skai’s boxy configuration doesn’t have the aerodynamic look of prototypes from the likes of Lilium, Bell, and, yes, Boeing. It tops out at just 118 mph, while other eVTOL (that’s electric, vertical-takeoff and -landing) concepts promise speeds of over 150 mph. The Skai is designed, rather, for efficiency, which matters more than top speed if it’s going to make dozens of short hops daily. “Our goal was to keep it simple, and we focused on accommodating a certain mission profile that’s repeatable over an entire day,” says NASA veteran engineer Bruce Holmes, who serves on Alaka’i’s board of directors.

Read more:
The Future....
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 07:06
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Hydrogen

Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe. But more than just being abundant, it has properties that means it can power a number of different types of transportation.

Vehicles fitted with hydrogen fuel-cells convert compressed hydrogen from their fuel tanks into electricity that powers the electric motor of a vehicle, providing a similar range to vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. And the best part? Whilst driving, hydrogen-powered vehicles only emit heat and water vapour.

In the US, Shell has a network of 35 refueling stations in California and is set to increase it to 100 in the next two years, making it an increasingly viable fuel for even more
types of vehicles – something Team Omega discovered on the first leg of their journey out of the Golden State.

At present, 64 hydrogen refuelling stations are in operation in Germany and the aim is for 100 to be open by the end of 2019. This clearly puts Germany ahead of Australia which only has one hydrogen refuelling station at Hyundai in Macquarie Park in Sydney, with a second one announced for the old Toyota manufacturing plant at Altona in Victoria.

Last edited by Dark Knight; 28th Jun 2019 at 07:14. Reason: Addition
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 07:55
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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if one goes to the company link, read all including the links to other authorities and information there is much to be learned.
Really. I went to their website and did not learn any concrete facts, only read marketing spin. Would have preferred to see a rotor spin.

Even their own link to "technical details" showed a page with the CV of key staff and promises about what it will do.

No one was actually doubting Hydrogen fuel, just this product.

Once they can turn a rotor and put it on their website it will be more than a "glossy brochure."

Here is a link to REAL hydrogen fuel stations in Europe.

https://www.netinform.net/h2/h2stations/h2stations.aspx

https://www.toyota-europe.com/world-...l-cell-vehicle
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 08:51
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Dark Knight.

I know and understand the advantages of hydrogen power. My point was the cost of making it. It takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get back when you use it as a source of energy. It isn't energy efficient from that point of view and therefore hydrogen is always going to be comparatively more costly than some other forms of energy. Sure there will be technology advances which will balance things out and hydrogen may well have attributes that makes the greater cost worthwhile.

The storage and distribution is not without it's challenges either. No doubt you've read about the explosion a couple of weeks ago in Norway. https://interestingengineering.com/h...toyota-hyundai

However my main issue is with the concept of the every day use of the "flying machine" for the average man and woman in the street to use it for the daily commute to and from work. This is where I think they're dreaming. I have no doubt they can make it fly and have it certified to carry passengers, with or eventually without a pilot. It will do nothing more than a helicopter does now and the average man and woman isn't using helicopters for the daily commute. Can you explain to me how something like the Skai is going to make this happen?
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 10:29
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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It will do nothing more than a helicopter does now and the average man and woman isn't using helicopters for the daily commute.
I keep coming back to this conclusion as well, same airspace, same regulator but the proponents expect a different result.

Even one of these?

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Old 28th Jun 2019, 14:53
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Have any of these marketing folk take into account / done research about how long these materials will last until structure fatigue sets in?

Sure enough good job in inventing more efficient ways in powering the thing but there is no point if it’s not built to last...

Even going small size - Cessna 150s built in the 70s are still cruising along in the air. Will these things have that longevity?

You want to make it accessible for everyone? You will cut costs somewhere. Might not be power / energy so it has to be structure.

No point in saving cost in fuel efficiencies but those savings are just used in re-production or maintenance.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 15:02
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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I've yet to see any of the latest ideas for "air taxis" actually in the air and moving a bunch of people anywhere. This isn't going to happen in the short term...
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 22:14
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Weight and Security Not an Issue?

I think I must be missing something. Won't there be a need for weight and balance to be considered for these aircraft? Pax would need to be checked in and any baggage weighed and manifested wouldn't they? I would also expect security screening will need to take place. If so, these things will have to be done by professionals at fixed terminals (and at a cost).
Who would load the cargo? Not the pax surely? Or perhaps these things will only carry pax who carry nothing more than a phone or tablet?
You could not have these aircraft simply landing outside your front door at home and taking you directly to your office. It would not be safe or practical. Flights would have to be to and from fixed and secure terminals. That means travel from home to a terminal and then travel from the next terminal to the final destination (in the congestion that you were trying to avoid in the first place).
Either I'm missing the point or if this does happen, it will be an expensive gimmick. Please feel free to set me straight on these points.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 23:31
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
DUMP - Designed Using Marketing Principles.
Meanwhile expect to see more of this until the public wise up to it and the money for it dries out.
Don't forget there will be another mob of gullible folk around in about twenty years, so it can all start again.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 01:04
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Sorry I completely disagree with your prediction. Australian governments already feel the heat when they plan for a toll road. Some states do not even have toll roads. So the idea of selling off a whole transport network is far fetched.
In fact, this has been the model in other countries for some time. NavCanada has been a private nonprofit corporation responsible for air traffic control in Canada since the Canadian Government sold it in 1996; it receives no public funding. In 1992, the U.K. made the strategic decision to separate its air traffic control operations from regulation – this was followed by full privatization in 2000. In the U.S. a privatized system similar to what exists in Canada or Great Britain could protect the nation’s air traffic control system from the vagaries of congressional budget battles and sequesters. But more importantly it could also provide greater efficiency without compromising safety.

Put on a bit of hospitals and pensions spin and reduced traffic congestion and bank a few big billions for this "nonprofit privatisation".
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 22:28
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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However my main issue is with the concept of the every day use of the "flying machine" for the average man and woman in the street to use it for the daily commute to and from work. This is where I think they're dreaming. I have no doubt they can make it fly and have it certified to carry passengers, with or eventually without a pilot. It will do nothing more than a helicopter does now and the average man and woman isn't using helicopters for the daily commute.

Can you explain to me how something like the Skai is going to make this happen?
I asked this question a couple of days ago.

I see none of the supporters of these oversized drones has bothered to even attempt to answer it. Am I to assume then, they might agree with my sentiment that these "flying machines" are the product of someone with a lot of money pursuing an expensive folly?

I have to wonder that it's just some rich person or a slick salesman trying to live their boyhood dreams from watching the Jetsons zipping about the skies.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 00:26
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 27/09 View Post
I asked this question a couple of days ago.

I see none of the supporters of these oversized drones has bothered to even attempt to answer it. Am I to assume then, they might agree with my sentiment that these "flying machines" are the product of someone with a lot of money pursuing an expensive folly?

I have to wonder that it's just some rich person or a slick salesman trying to live their boyhood dreams from watching the Jetsons zipping about the skies.
You would need to change the way you are thinking.

Firstly it will not be something you buy - that is important to understand.
Secondly you would not park it in your garage - it would likely collect you at a zone (maybe corner blocks).
Thirdly it will be very primitive and restrictive in the early years - somewhat like the Commodore 32 or 64 was.
Also it would not be like the current transport systems we have but part of a single network - there would be no CAsA or RTA's.

* Note, I do not think the example you listed above is the Jetson Zipper of the future. I would expect that you would actually enter a quick release pod than an actual flying machine. I also do not see Australia having the political will for some time, for such required changes.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 00:59
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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It is difficult top overcome a large size of negative thinking; instead of becoming involved in the endless debate about negatives some would rather focus on the positives making it happen.
All the aforementioned problems can be conquered.

When President John F Kennedy said to the American People "We will go to the Moon" the American people did not throw up endless objections, negativities, they said "Yep, we can do this" and they did.regardless there was not really the technology do it at the time..

They invented the technology much of which leads to the technology and means we have today..

“A Dream is the visualization of goals and the motivation for the soul,”

A dream as “a statement of the greater good you want to create in the world.”

A dream moves and inspire; It awakens the passion, it fills one with hope and pumps life with purpose and meaning.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 02:48
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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It is difficult top overcome a large size of negative thinking; instead of becoming involved in the endless debate about negatives some would rather focus on the positives making it happen. All the aforementioned problems can be conquered.
Its not negative thinking it's just the denial of reality by the protagonists of these type of schemes. You don't just get a regulatory free pass just because you are a hip and cool silicon valley startup.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 03:02
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post


Its not negative thinking it's just the denial of reality by the protagonists of these type of schemes. You don't just get a regulatory free pass just because you are a hip and cool silicon valley startup.
You must have missed the "regulatory free pass" Uber got over the taxi industry, and not just in Australia.
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