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Cobham Cadet Pilot Progam

Old 27th Sep 2018, 03:32
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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I worked with doctors for several years. Academically they’re very smart, and while they know their craft very well, they weren’t always practically smart.

So I would argue that they would easily make good pilots. Think how many of the good pilots aren’t actually that smart academically and then the number of really smart pilots who aren’t very good!
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 03:32
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For the best reaction postulate that the job of pilot is a "blue collar" job notwithstanding most wear white ones. No formal education requirements only vocational training undertaken via self selection, if you can pay you can undertake it, not like medical school as you say. If you want a good idea of education levels read some of the maintenance entries in the DL/ML.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 06:26
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
For the best reaction postulate that the job of pilot is a "blue collar" job notwithstanding most wear white ones. No formal education requirements only vocational training undertaken via self selection, if you can pay you can undertake it, not like medical school as you say. If you want a good idea of education levels read some of the maintenance entries in the DL/ML.
Well if you want to play that game there is a High Court Judge who left school in Year 10 and never did a HSC or went to university. So you might as well throw lawyers on that blue collar pile as well.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 10:51
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Really, how was this person admitted to the bar without any "formal study"? Do you have a name?
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 10:58
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People who are comfortable with who they are and what they do don't spend time on the internet pontificating on whether their job is blue collar, white collar, professional, etc. Who cares?
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 14:02
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Really, how was this person admitted to the bar without any "formal study"? Do you have a name?
Susan Kiefel. First Chief Justice of Australia. She did have formal training it just wasn't by going to university. You can study Law through the Law Society. The Bar exam is independant of any university it is run by an admissions board. Having a Law Degree doesn't permit you to actually practice law.

Anyway point being it's the same as being a pilot as you still need to pass a bunch of exams whilst there being no real formal educational prerequisite.

However the reality is that in this day and age you need a degree if you want to be competitive in the job market. Same could be said for airline jobs too.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 27th Sep 2018 at 14:22.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 19:42
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Hi all

I see Cobham has advertised for FOs (EoI) on the Dash 8; out of interest how many hrs would FOs be flying annually? Is the Coastwatch job viewed as a viable long-term career option with a good work-life balance (cliché I know)?

Cheers

BE
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 22:02
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I don’t imagine a company having to recruit with a cadet program is having much success attracting enough pilots to cover its flying. Also the push to lower wages and increase so called productivity probably means you won’t be seeing any work life balance.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 00:04
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Wages are going up in general at Coastwatch. When I was there my flying was typically limited by 90 in 14 duty limits and less frequently by my FAID score. Most duties were 10 hours for about 7 hours of flying. The 14 day limit meant you couldn’t usually do more than 9 duties in 14 days. My annual hours were typically around 650. This was with a reasonable crew numbers. My biggest year was 800 hours in 2007 when the company was facing similar crewing problems to now. Work life balance would be fine except for the bases. If you can adapt to the Broome or Darwin lifestyle then it could be a good career job. If not, you will always be looking for a way to leave. They have offered commuting options lately but don’t know if that is for FOs or not.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 01:22
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Captains are on about 80 hours a month, if not more. I believe the FOs are similar. As Aerocat has stated, you’ll generally run out of duty.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 03:39
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I don’t imagine a company having to recruit with a cadet program is having much success attracting enough pilots to cover its flying.
Qantas, Virgin, Rex, Singapore Airlines Malaysia Airlines....all in that group using cadets.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 05:01
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Neville_Nobody,

Nice strawman / outlier argument.

Early life and education[edit]

Kiefel was born in Cairns, Queensland in 1954. She attended Sandgate District State High School, leaving at the age of 15 upon completing Year 10. In 1971, she completed secretarial training at Kangaroo Point Technical College on a scholarship. She worked as a secretary for a building society, an architect, and an exploration company before starting work as a receptionist for a group of barristers, Fitzgerald, Moynihan and Mack. During this time, she completed secondary school and began studying law.[3]

In 1973, Kiefel joined solicitors Cannan and Peterson (which became Sly & Weigall Cannan & Peterson and is now Norton Rose Fulbright) as a legal clerk. Completing her education at night, she enrolled in the Barristers Admission Board course and passed her course with honours.[4] In 1984, while on sabbatical leave, she completed a Master of Laws (LLM) at the University of Cambridge, where she was awarded the C.J. Hamson Prize in Comparative Law and the Jennings Prize. In 2008, she was elected to an Honorary Fellowship of Wolfson College, Cambridge.

You're comparing 1% of 1% of the population with the rest of us, nice try, but yeah....NAH!
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 05:51
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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I always assumed Cadets didn't have to pay a penny - that was the whole point about being a cadet wasn't it? You get selected via a rigourous process, focusing on actual piloting attributes, and therefore the airline scholarship kicks in.....

The kind of stuff you would have to be smoking to think it's a good idea to pay that kind of money for lower quality, sausage factory training would surely invalidate your class 1.
If people don't research their chosen industry and the best ways to go about getting their licence and ratings, it's hard to be too sympathetic when they get swindled
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 07:23
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Airline scholarship? Snerk!
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 11:15
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt. On Heat View Post
I always assumed Cadets didn't have to pay a penny - that was the whole point about being a cadet wasn't it? You get selected via a rigourous process, focusing on actual piloting attributes, and therefore the airline scholarship kicks in.....
No, the whole point of being a cadet was a "guaranteed" job with the airline once you completed the requisite training.

There are variations where the company stumps up the cash for training and then takes it out of your salary once you commence working etc... But in general, cadets need to cover the costs of training one way or another
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 17:12
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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@ Bazza Stub, AerocatS2A & 717tech

Thanks for the information and your perspectives. Certainly on the surface it seems an appealing job (flying wise anyway) but I understand the other factors can take the shine off even the best job if they become excessive.

Cheers

BE
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 03:34
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt. On Heat View Post
The kind of stuff you would have to be smoking to think it's a good idea to pay that kind of money for lower quality, sausage factory training would surely invalidate your class 1.
Why is flight training undertaken during a cadet program lower quality? How is doing CPL training through a non-cadet course at a normal flying school better? Aren’t they “sausage factories” too as they teach the same CASA syllabus? I mean it’s said as a derogatory term but essentially a training course that produces pilots who operate to the same standards and procedures is a “sausage factory” isn’t it?
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 03:47
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post


Why is flight training undertaken during a cadet program lower quality? How is doing CPL training through a non-cadet course at a normal flying school better? Aren’t they “sausage factories” too as they teach the same CASA syllabus? I mean it’s said as a derogatory term but essentially a training course that produces pilots who operate to the same standards and procedures is a “sausage factory” isn’t it?
I attended half my training at a smaller flight school/ charter company, the second half at a “sausage factory”.

At the smaller school, my instructors were all charter pilots, flying heavy twins with a couple thousand hours each, guys who enjoyed to be there.

At the sausage factory, my first instructor was a 250 hour grade 3 who was there simply to build a few quick hours for himself and move on, which he did.
i’m sure that’s not the case with all schools, however I see that some of the meta instructors at certain flight schools have never flown a charter in their life, and haven’t touched a twin since their mecir flight test. They may know the ifr according to the aip, but do they really understand how to take advantage of the IF
rules? Have they ever had to calculate fuel for a max payload flight during poor weather? I doubt it. I know they have to start somewhere, but should they be starting by teaching something they don’t really know?

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Old 8th Oct 2018, 14:21
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 717tech View Post
Captains are on about 80 hours a month, if not more. I believe the FOs are similar. As Aerocat has stated, you’ll generally run out of duty.
For base captains this can be a problem, up to 110 hours, but for FO's no, you will not run out of duty.

In saying that, there's a lot of things that could very quickly change, I beleive there is more pilots on a hold file than there is off one.
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