Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Emergency Exits

Old 17th Jan 2018, 15:47
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On a Lion flight UPG - DPS day before yesterday; lady and two small kids in exit row. I was waiting to see what would happen.

Cabin staff checked seat allocation; obviously incorrectly allocated.
Cabin crew then arrange swap for (young) ABP's from rear of aircraft.

Lion don't always get it wrong.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 20:45
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A typical mindset from our airlines. They'll use anything, in this case a piece of safety equipment, as a means of increasing profit. If no one wants to pay, the exit potentially goes unopened in an emergency.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 03:08
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While emergency row seats may offer a little more legroom, there are frequent trade-offs;
  • rigid arm rest / seat dividers
  • no recline
  • no drop down tray
  • IFE screen that much further away, if at all
  • no seat back pocket for documents, books, etc.
  • no bags under the seat in front (added, with thanks to Capn Bloggs)
... don't see the value myself. Certainly wouldn't pay extra to use one.

Last edited by WingNut60; 18th Jan 2018 at 09:14.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 03:45
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
Charming! Is this any way to treat a 'guest'? And I bet it'll be quite a while before the said gentleman ventures onto a VA aircraft again.
The exit rows are now designated a different product - "Economy X".

This example is no different from someone who has paid for Economy X moving themselves into a business class seat after take off. If they're moved out of the BC seat, should they then spit the dummy and not fly that airline again?

Before people start banging on about what product is what and why it should or shouldn't be or called what, I'm just pointing out that it's essentially the same example. Most people accept that if someone hasn't paid for a business class seat then they shouldn't be allowed to go sit in one after take off just because it's empty. No difference here.

Regarding the emergency exits (now designated Economy X at VA), there is no requirement if less than or equal to 144 pax that anyone be seated in them. If > 144 pax then there must be 2 x ABPs in each exit row, meaning a total of 8 ABPs for the two rows on either side of the aircraft. This is written into the Virgin manuals but I can't speak for other airlines.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 05:33
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Thank you Dragun you explained it perfectly and with facts. I would have to say that there would have been less than 144 people on board so hence the empty exit rows.
Cheers
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 05:36
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Dragun, seriously? Sitting in an economy seat that is precisely the same (worse, in a lot of aspects as pointed out by Wingnut) as every other economy seat save a few extra inches of legroom is nothing like jumping into a biz seat when you didn't pay for it.

I suppose that, when a pax "volunteers" to seat in an exit row by the FAs, you'd then charge them?

I agree with GFV. Beancounter mindset.

Wingnut, add to your list no bags under the seat in front.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 05:49
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Does the 737 have a requirement for pax in the exit rows with <144 pax?
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 09:28
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Does the 737 have a requirement for pax in the exit rows with <144 pax?
Nope.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 22:14
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One of the cheapest extra safety measures an airline can employ is to identify paxing crew from their own or any other airline and seat them in an emergency exit row. Used to be a completely free option and still is if no one has chosen to pay for the seat beforehand.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 23:24
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If the responsibility for operating an overwing exit is ultimately left to the ABP who paid for or was operationally required to be moved into the seat, then surely the cheapest extra safety measure is to (as well as briefing said pax), explain their operation to the rest of the pax during the preflight safety speil (I know, I know!). Just because there is not enough pax to have to fill the exit rows , or no one has paid extra for them , shouldn't automatically discount their use.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 23:37
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If, by paying for one of the appropriate seats I agree to become, in some small way, part of the airlines way of meeting their operational requirements, they should be paying me, not me paying them extra for the "privilege".
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 01:56
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Dragun, seriously? Sitting in an economy seat that is precisely the same (worse, in a lot of aspects as pointed out by Wingnut) as every other economy seat save a few extra inches of legroom is nothing like jumping into a biz seat when you didn't pay for it.

I suppose that, when a pax "volunteers" to seat in an exit row by the FAs, you'd then charge them?

I agree with GFV. Beancounter mindset.

Wingnut, add to your list no bags under the seat in front.
Always someone on here wanting to start an argument. I've literally already addressed your comment in my first post - "Before people start banging on about what product is what and why it should or shouldn't be or called what, I'm just pointing out that it's essentially the same example."

Once again, for the dummies, I'm not arguing the merits of whether or not it should be a different product, all I'm stating is the facts. It is a different product and therefore the same requirements apply as if someone from economy tried to sit in business class.

If you want to argue whether or not it should be a different product, call someone who cares, which will more than likely involve getting on your high horse in an email to the airline itself.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 02:10
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Originally Posted by Dragun View Post
Always someone on here wanting to start an argument........
If you want to argue whether or not it should be a different product, call someone who cares, which will more than likely involve getting on your high horse in an email to the airline itself.
I see your point and agree that you have a point.
But as for starting an argument, I don't believe that I or Capn Bloggs did so. Dragun was a bit more emphatic.
We merely stated our point of view.

Regarding these seats being a different product, that will be decided ultimately by the market; not by marketing.
But I will point out that this marketing strategy is not universally applied. In fact, I think it would be applicable only to a minority of airlines, not the majority.
Which raises the question, why.

Last edited by WingNut60; 20th Jan 2018 at 02:26.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 02:10
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Except your example is flawed. Business Class is physically a different seat and it is also a different service level. The exit rows have extra leg room due to regulatory requirements so are not a different "product" in the same way escape slides are not a different product to stairs. The passenger sitting in the exit row has to be willing and able to assist in an emergency. For that responsibility the airline is now charging the passenger for the privilege. It should be the other way around, the passenger should get a discount on their fare.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 04:31
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It's not flawed at all. It's deemed a different product by the airline and the passengers pay a different amount for that seat. If someone who hasn't paid for it sits in it, it's no different on the simple basis of paying a different amount for whatever it deemed to be different.

I'll say it again, the specifics of what you or I consider to be worthy of a different product are irrelevant i.e. a different seat and different service levels. The airline has decided that more leg room is to be a different product and on that basis alone they charge more for it and therefore if you haven't paid for it, you can't sit there - that's it. I didn't say I agreed with it but it is what it is.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 05:15
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Originally Posted by Dragun View Post
.... and therefore if you haven't paid for it, you can't sit there - that's it. I didn't say I agreed with it but it is what it is.
You are quite correct. You didn't pay for it, ergo, you can not use it.

But any sane airline management would be asking why the seat was empty in the first place. Refer list in my post # 23, above.
You can always convince someone that sitting on a pointy stick is a premium product (coz it costs more?), but not me.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 19:24
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I have seen many occasions where a very fat person has paid for, and got, the exit row seat.

They appeared to be unable to turn to the side to open the window, and if they were too stunned by an emergency landing to do so, nobody could get past them to get out.

Same with very old people - the airline wants their bucks and doesn't care that they couldn't operate the exit.
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Old 21st Jan 2018, 01:17
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The Economy X product includes more than just the seat at the overwing (or the first 3 rows of Economy on the B738, depending on which seat you've chosen):

Economy X guests travelling on Domestic flights will receive:
Priority Screening (where available)
Priority Boarding (where available)
Greater legroom at the front of the Economy Cabin or in the over wing exits
Preferred overhead locker space
https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.co...ews/economy-x/

So yes, the crew are required to protect the integrity of the product. Regardless of whether people believe it should be sold as a product or not (these economy comfort style products are common practice in the USA for the record), as stated above the reality is it IS sold as a separate product and is treated as such. And if an economy X paying passenger does not meet exit row requirements, they're able to be seated in other non-exit row economy X seats.
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Old 21st Jan 2018, 06:47
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So rather than have someone who has been briefed on the operation of the emergency exit the airline would prefer someone who hasn't been briefed
Seems odd that there is a requirement for a person to be briefed on the operation if seated in the row, but the row can remain empty and no one is briefed. It's an important bit of safety equipment and I'd assume that's the reason for a seat occupant to be personally briefed, to ensure someone knows how to get the thing open, rather than the usual cattle who pay no attention to the general briefing or read the card. Airline opening itself to litigation if no one is seated in the row and personally briefed and the worse occurs, people die because they don't know how to open? Mind you, they may make the Darwin award line up for not paying attention to the general brief and card.
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Old 21st Jan 2018, 06:59
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Last year I was on a Very empty BA flight in Europe. There were no passengers in the seats by the emergency over- wing exit and the staff asked a young guy if he's sit there for takeoff and landing

He did but moved himself back to his booked seat in flight as he could work better there


V strange......................
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