Jetstar Lawsuit: 7 dismissed pilots suing over discrimination
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Jetstar Lawsuit: 7 dismissed pilots suing over discrimination
How well does Jetstar Australia monitor and/or control the ethical behaviour of it's subsidiary companies? Judging by this long running lawsuit against Jetstar Japan, it would appear that out in the provinces you can get away with anything.
Three years ago, Jetstar recruited around 20 highly experienced A320 Captains for their Tokyo based fledgling airline. It is alleged they were all subjected to an appalling array of dirty tricks including, unnecessary medical tests, lost documents, constant translation errors, and ridiculous sim failures while the local low houred Japanese pilots sailed through. None of this group was ever allowed to fly. Some of this group passed all checks and medicals and still couldn't fly. The Australian managers just stood back and watched. The end result is a number of lawsuits presently going through the Japanese courts. There our five in one class action group and two individual cases. I believe the two individual cases have both received positive judgments.
There is a current effort to see if these cases can be brought before the Australian courts as Jetstar the parent must bear at least some responsibility, anyway, that is one for the lawyers.
If this thread is not deleted, I will keep readers informed of developments also if any members of the press want further information I can give them a book full.
Three years ago, Jetstar recruited around 20 highly experienced A320 Captains for their Tokyo based fledgling airline. It is alleged they were all subjected to an appalling array of dirty tricks including, unnecessary medical tests, lost documents, constant translation errors, and ridiculous sim failures while the local low houred Japanese pilots sailed through. None of this group was ever allowed to fly. Some of this group passed all checks and medicals and still couldn't fly. The Australian managers just stood back and watched. The end result is a number of lawsuits presently going through the Japanese courts. There our five in one class action group and two individual cases. I believe the two individual cases have both received positive judgments.
There is a current effort to see if these cases can be brought before the Australian courts as Jetstar the parent must bear at least some responsibility, anyway, that is one for the lawyers.
If this thread is not deleted, I will keep readers informed of developments also if any members of the press want further information I can give them a book full.
Now everyone can fly!
Oh wait, not you whitey
Oh wait, not you whitey
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Solid rumour a couple of lawsuits from Japanese Captains as well who encountered "difficulties" with the CP and his number 1 henchman.
Bearing in mind Qantas own 51% of J*J, from Jetstar HQ management down, they have enforced stuff all of Operational Control within J*J.
Strange way to use your controlling interest in an industry that can be very unforgiving if the sh*t ever hits the fan.
Cheers.
Bearing in mind Qantas own 51% of J*J, from Jetstar HQ management down, they have enforced stuff all of Operational Control within J*J.
Strange way to use your controlling interest in an industry that can be very unforgiving if the sh*t ever hits the fan.
Cheers.
There is a current effort to see if these cases can be brought before the Australian courts as Jetstar the parent must bear at least some responsibility, anyway, that is one for the lawyers.
I wouldn't recommend it. Always ends in tears. Deal with it in Japan.
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Absolute Fact and Blatant Discrimination
Having been one of the original ExPats to be hired I will submit that the treatment we received by the CP and his designated simulator hit man was some of the most egregious unprofessional behavior I have experienced in over 30 years in aviation.
The entire experience was reported to the placement service as the weeks/months long process of trying to force us out took place. To the point the placement service suspended any further supplying of candidates to JetStar Japan!
Delaying of contract commitment/Pay,ignoring hotel payment obligations, delays in required training to avoid mixing ExPat with Japanese in class, delay of simulator periods to allow Japanese students to take the periods all done to try to get us to quit.
Ultimately when the acts of discrimination were called to their attention in HR they never argued. JetStar simply offered a buyout to hide the matter.
The experience caused extensive loss of earnings due to the delays (months wasted with all the shenanigans) and flying currency lost which further delayed securing employment. This matter needs to be exposed and a spotlight shone on the CP and his underlings who deserve to be named publicly for their actions!
The entire experience was reported to the placement service as the weeks/months long process of trying to force us out took place. To the point the placement service suspended any further supplying of candidates to JetStar Japan!
Delaying of contract commitment/Pay,ignoring hotel payment obligations, delays in required training to avoid mixing ExPat with Japanese in class, delay of simulator periods to allow Japanese students to take the periods all done to try to get us to quit.
Ultimately when the acts of discrimination were called to their attention in HR they never argued. JetStar simply offered a buyout to hide the matter.
The experience caused extensive loss of earnings due to the delays (months wasted with all the shenanigans) and flying currency lost which further delayed securing employment. This matter needs to be exposed and a spotlight shone on the CP and his underlings who deserve to be named publicly for their actions!
Yea and you Aussies back home you guys give expats ( 457s ) a warm welcome and lots of love too? Don't get upset when a country actually values locals over foreigners. Japanese are a proud people, and above all they love their country, they support their local industry and products, and thus the "go back to where you came from" treatment, Mr gaijin.
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
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Would you believe that J*J didn't pay me for me for the first seven months !!! Yes, it's true, and the same for all the others. They said they couldn't pay me till I got a Japanese bank account. To get a Japanese bank account you have to be a resident. You can only get residence by the company sponsoring you, which Jetstar would only do once you pass the JCAB check and had your ATPL issued. You were set up to fail the JCAB check by being trained for proceedure X but you were tested on proceedure Y. When you failed, you were fired with no pay !! Yes, there are many that spent months of hard work preparing for that check and walked away without a penny to show for it.
My sim partner and I were the first expats to pass the JCAB check only because after a month of sim training, the night before the check my sim partner was talking to two Japanese first officers in the hotel bar who told him what the check really entailed and he wrote it all down on the back of some bar napkins, and came round to my hotel room at 10:00 pm so we could prepare. Sounds ridiculous, but this is what happened. Welcome to the Jetstar alternate universe. The JCAB check has been the same test for eons and all the Japanese know exactly what it is.
Back to the payment issue. Several months in we did some research and found out that Japanese labour law says that an employee can only be paid salary directly into his bank account if he agrees to this, else he must be paid in cash. We sent the Australia manager a copy of the law, but nothing happened. He said the accounts department would only pay into a bank account and that was that.
This is all true, all documented, I have the emails, and it is only a small part of the total law suit and what went on.
It would be very nice if somebody from Jetstar finally apologized to us all. They know perfectly well they dropped us all into a viper's nest of their own creation and then pretended it wasn't happening.
Finally, in reply to unobtanium's post: You seem to be saying it's OK to treat us badly because we weren't Japanese - That's just wrong. We were invited (recruited) to go to Japan. We were told that we were wanted and needed. The local pilots had no A320 experience and we could help to build experience and add to safety. Also it was an Australian owned (not completely) and managed company where we could reasonably expect Australia standards of treatment and managerial conduct.
My sim partner and I were the first expats to pass the JCAB check only because after a month of sim training, the night before the check my sim partner was talking to two Japanese first officers in the hotel bar who told him what the check really entailed and he wrote it all down on the back of some bar napkins, and came round to my hotel room at 10:00 pm so we could prepare. Sounds ridiculous, but this is what happened. Welcome to the Jetstar alternate universe. The JCAB check has been the same test for eons and all the Japanese know exactly what it is.
Back to the payment issue. Several months in we did some research and found out that Japanese labour law says that an employee can only be paid salary directly into his bank account if he agrees to this, else he must be paid in cash. We sent the Australia manager a copy of the law, but nothing happened. He said the accounts department would only pay into a bank account and that was that.
This is all true, all documented, I have the emails, and it is only a small part of the total law suit and what went on.
It would be very nice if somebody from Jetstar finally apologized to us all. They know perfectly well they dropped us all into a viper's nest of their own creation and then pretended it wasn't happening.
Finally, in reply to unobtanium's post: You seem to be saying it's OK to treat us badly because we weren't Japanese - That's just wrong. We were invited (recruited) to go to Japan. We were told that we were wanted and needed. The local pilots had no A320 experience and we could help to build experience and add to safety. Also it was an Australian owned (not completely) and managed company where we could reasonably expect Australia standards of treatment and managerial conduct.
Last edited by xyz; 16th Aug 2017 at 07:16.
Yea and you Aussies back home you guys give expats ( 457s ) a warm welcome and lots of love too? Don't get upset when a country actually values locals over foreigners. Japanese are a proud people, and above all they love their country, they support their local industry and products, and thus the "go back to where you came from" treatment, Mr gaijin.
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
On your assertion that we treat 457's poorly -
Most 457's are now holding Australian citizenship! Seems like a great deal to me. I'm yet to see any 457 holder treated in an unsatisfactory manner.
Would you believe that J*J didn't pay me for me for the first seven months !!! Yes, it's true, and the same for all the others. They said they couldn't pay me till I got a Japanese bank account. To get a Japanese bank account you have to be a resident. You can only get residence by the company sponsoring you, which Jetstar would only do once you pass the JCAB check and had your ATPL issued. You were set up to fail the JCAB check by being trained for proceedure X but you were tested on proceedure Y. When you failed, you were fired with no pay !! Yes, there are many that spent months of hard work preparing for that check and walked away without a penny to show for it.
My sim partner and I were the first expats to pass the JCAB check only because after a month of sim training, the night before the check my sim partner was talking to two Japanese first officers in the hotel bar who told him what the check really entailed and he wrote it all down on the back of some bar napkins, and came round to my hotel room at 10:00 pm so we could prepare. Sounds ridiculous, but this is what happened. Welcome to the Jetstar alternate universe. The JCAB check has been the same test for eons and all the Japanese know exactly what it is.
Back to the payment issue. Several months in we did some research and found out that Japanese labour law says that an employee can only be paid salary directly into his bank account if he agrees to this, else he must be paid in cash. We sent the Australia manager a copy of the law, but nothing happened. He said the accounts department would only pay into a bank account and that was that.
This is all true, all documented, I have the emails, and it is only a small part of the total law suit and what went on.
It would be very nice if somebody from Jetstar finally apologized to us all. They know perfectly well they dropped us all into a viper's nest of their own creation and then pretended it wasn't happening.
Finally, in reply to unobtanium's post: You seem to be saying it's OK to treat us badly because we weren't Japanese - That's just wrong. We were invited (recruited) to go to Japan. We were told that we were wanted and needed. The local pilots had no A320 experience and we could help to build experience and add to safety. Also it was an Australian owned (not completely) and managed company where we could reasonably expect Australia standards of treatment and managerial conduct.
My sim partner and I were the first expats to pass the JCAB check only because after a month of sim training, the night before the check my sim partner was talking to two Japanese first officers in the hotel bar who told him what the check really entailed and he wrote it all down on the back of some bar napkins, and came round to my hotel room at 10:00 pm so we could prepare. Sounds ridiculous, but this is what happened. Welcome to the Jetstar alternate universe. The JCAB check has been the same test for eons and all the Japanese know exactly what it is.
Back to the payment issue. Several months in we did some research and found out that Japanese labour law says that an employee can only be paid salary directly into his bank account if he agrees to this, else he must be paid in cash. We sent the Australia manager a copy of the law, but nothing happened. He said the accounts department would only pay into a bank account and that was that.
This is all true, all documented, I have the emails, and it is only a small part of the total law suit and what went on.
It would be very nice if somebody from Jetstar finally apologized to us all. They know perfectly well they dropped us all into a viper's nest of their own creation and then pretended it wasn't happening.
Finally, in reply to unobtanium's post: You seem to be saying it's OK to treat us badly because we weren't Japanese - That's just wrong. We were invited (recruited) to go to Japan. We were told that we were wanted and needed. The local pilots had no A320 experience and we could help to build experience and add to safety. Also it was an Australian owned (not completely) and managed company where we could reasonably expect Australia standards of treatment and managerial conduct.
So what's new, when they setup in New Zealand they totally ignored NZ Employment law and it has taken 8 years to get most of the kinks ironed out. Running other airlines from Melbourne is fine if you have some knowledge of the territory you are operating in. Unfortunately I have always found the 'managers' to be blind to other countries laws and the only answer you ever get it 'why would we give you that when we don't get that in Australia?'. Jetstar is absolutely tied to policy and procedure and if HR Policy is no payment in cash then their will be no payment in cash even if Japanese law says to do this in Leiu of a bank account. I mean Jesus Christ the Jetstar NZ pilots had to fight for 6 years including a trip to the Supreme Court to get Jetstar to compensate them for the rest and meal breaks allowed for under NZ Employment Law.
This entire thread simply confirms my earlier postings to the effect that Qantas is going to lose its entire investment in the Jetstar Asian model. The simple reason is that Asians won't let foreigners make a profit off other Asians in their home countries if they can help it. The sad tale of Japanese skulduggery is a perfect example. Now multiply this same behaviour in every facet of your Asian business and guess what happens.
Jetstar and Qantas should have known this because it has been common knowledge since at least 1935. Mr. Packer and Crown Casinos has recently also made this same discovery the hard way.
Jetstar and Qantas should have known this because it has been common knowledge since at least 1935. Mr. Packer and Crown Casinos has recently also made this same discovery the hard way.
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We were invited!
Yea and you Aussies back home you guys give expats ( 457s ) a warm welcome and lots of love too? Don't get upset when a country actually values locals over foreigners. Japanese are a proud people, and above all they love their country, they support their local industry and products, and thus the "go back to where you came from" treatment, Mr gaijin.
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
While we're here, why do you call yourselves expats, when back home foreigners are called things like 457s, cheap labour.... Isn't that discrimination?
Our culture treats invited guests with respect and all the graciousness that is appropriate.
If they didn't want us there why go to all the trouble of recruiting us and then treating us like the bastard stepchild?