Hijack attempt on Malaysia Airlines
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"any pilot that will call an evacuation on any and every bomb threat/hoax is one I would rather not fly with.
And if that is an airline SOP tell me I wont fly with you."
So said Mr B a L
Trust he likes travelling by train!
And if that is an airline SOP tell me I wont fly with you."
So said Mr B a L
Trust he likes travelling by train!
Have you heard of "duty of care". If you don't act in the best interests of all on board using all the available information at hand and safety is jeopardised especially if injuries or loss of life occur, look out.
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Since this happened in Australia and yes we sign all sorts of ICAO and other convention things - we have applied and got our own independence on things within and approved by these Conventions and they are overriding !
Sorry to say - that is not part of Australia's regulation - we modified it.
Here and from my memory at this time a flight and PIC ends way before the engines are shut down - I will let you look it up.
P.S. while you are at it look up what CASA determines as flight or a flight.
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Some years ago I had a similar incident resulting in a diversion and landing at a conveniently close en-route alternate. The person in question made some threats to the safety of the flight and in short, at the request of the cabin crew, a couple of our suitably qualified passengers 'subdued' the person in question.
After landing the person was moved to the rear door and offloaded as soon as possible via some mobile stairs by some of North Queensland's finest.
In the 20 to 30-odd minutes from the threat initiation until offloading, a substantial amount of information was obtained about the person, some of which proved to be quite worrying, however didn't alter the decision making process - in fact neither I, nor the arresting Police Officers at the scene were aware of it until some time later.
It's possible that the protective services had far more information about the MH128 assailant than they are making public and it was that information that led to the delay in entering the aircraft.
My event was pre September '11 and rated about 3 column paragraphs in the Queensland papers and little else. How things (media) have changed.
After landing the person was moved to the rear door and offloaded as soon as possible via some mobile stairs by some of North Queensland's finest.
In the 20 to 30-odd minutes from the threat initiation until offloading, a substantial amount of information was obtained about the person, some of which proved to be quite worrying, however didn't alter the decision making process - in fact neither I, nor the arresting Police Officers at the scene were aware of it until some time later.
It's possible that the protective services had far more information about the MH128 assailant than they are making public and it was that information that led to the delay in entering the aircraft.
My event was pre September '11 and rated about 3 column paragraphs in the Queensland papers and little else. How things (media) have changed.
Very good point/s 441 - was it an operation issue to you were not immediately informed of such a disturbing person on your aircraft?
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I just don't see lots of aeroplanes with deployed slides around to match the number of bomb threats - or do most pilots not follow the SOP's?
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It seems no it is a limited duty of care, that only to one aircraft and no consideration to anyone or thing else. The AA pilot was not interested in information, only to exercise power by demands - he only had to call the number provided but threatened an evacuation.
Funny part he seemed a bit happy to have conflicting information - not to evacuate. Sort of shows how professional he actually is/was.
Bandaidalot-
It was a Malaysian state registered carrier not a VH carrier. Malaysia has ratified the Tokyo Convention. I find it amusing that you just pooh pooh it with the "yes that Tokyo convention thing again"
Classic, if you were in a POW camp and wanting to torture prisoners - I can see you saying "oh yes that Geneva convention thing again"
If it was a UAE rego'd jet, they definitely are signatories to the Tokyo Convention, and as I pointed out - the EK OMA also gives you the reference you so ignorantly claimed didn't exist.
Well yes that Tokyo convention thing again!
Since this happened in Australia and yes we sign all sorts of ICAO and other convention things - we have applied and got our own independence on things within and approved by these Conventions and they are overriding !
Sorry to say - that is not part of Australia's regulation - we modified it.
Since this happened in Australia and yes we sign all sorts of ICAO and other convention things - we have applied and got our own independence on things within and approved by these Conventions and they are overriding !
Sorry to say - that is not part of Australia's regulation - we modified it.
Classic, if you were in a POW camp and wanting to torture prisoners - I can see you saying "oh yes that Geneva convention thing again"
If it was a UAE rego'd jet, they definitely are signatories to the Tokyo Convention, and as I pointed out - the EK OMA also gives you the reference you so ignorantly claimed didn't exist.
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Very little info on today's but if on runway or just off, seems a very good call.
Every case is different, in this count the PIC had full control and I assume requested the evacuation when he still did.
I assume again before chocks and engines stopped this decision was made.
Every case is different, in this count the PIC had full control and I assume requested the evacuation when he still did.
I assume again before chocks and engines stopped this decision was made.
Here and from my memory at this time a flight and PIC ends way before the engines are shut down - I will let you look it up.
I assume again before chocks and engines stopped this decision was made.
Are you suggesting in the first quote (and it's not altogether obvious) that the captain's authority ceases long before the engines are shut down? Who else is in charge while you're sitting there with the engines running, then? The airport manager? The engineer over in his hut?
I'm sorry if the odd bumptious pilot's got your nose out of joint over the years, but I can't really see what you're achieving with this obsession.
Last edited by itsnotthatbloodyhard; 6th Jun 2017 at 11:22.
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Yes I am stating the captains legal and overall authority ends well prior to engines shut down.
That is easy to prove, just never acknowledged by most on here.
Go back to that AA24 flight and find a legal reason for that captain to call a evacuation.
He could not prove that any danger existed and had no proof it existed!
So how on Earth can he justify an evacuation? because he saw a fire truck and he was on hold in a area that he had not been held before?
He could not prove that any danger existed and had no proof it existed!
So after the event he may have been "wrong" but this does not mean that if he BELIEVED THAT to be the case at the time then he cannot order an evacuation.
find a legal reason for that captain to call a evacuation.
Bandy are you a pilot?
Yes I am stating the captains legal and overall authority ends well prior to engines shut down.
That is easy to prove, just never acknowledged by most on here.
Bandy has claimed in the past that he is a LAME. There is a strong track record of commenting on (and calling into question) the authority of the PinC.
This thread is actually quite lite on it compared to others he has contributed to.
His persistence is noteworthy and something quite special. The motivation is unknown. Previous posts have displayed enough technical knowledge to suggest that Bandy has in fact worked in aviation.
Enjoy the show
This thread is actually quite lite on it compared to others he has contributed to.
His persistence is noteworthy and something quite special. The motivation is unknown. Previous posts have displayed enough technical knowledge to suggest that Bandy has in fact worked in aviation.
Enjoy the show
New ipad, back to it...
Heh, yep. Everybody running to the back of an aircraft and hiding under the seats whilst turning on their mobile phones is probably not the best idea.
"...the difference..."
The "Brace" and "stop, drop, roll" mnemonics (? If that's the right word for it) are for fairly well defined situations. The Brace instruction is for somebody in an aircraft seat with no other options (unless wearing a parachute) and Stop-Drop-Roll is for somebody on fire. These unthinking reaction aids are for an unforeseen well defined accident situation.
The pathetic Run-Hide-Tell instruction on the other hand is being given out by our so-called leaders in response to random method islamic terrorism attacks. Attacks that are happening because the reason for the attacks is not being removed.
For an example of where Run-Hide-Tell don't work just look to the YouTube vids on the recent concert bomb attack where the person doing the post explosion public address system instructions is clearly telling people to not panic and walk to the exits.
At the end of the day, when faced with a nutter running around bomb-threatening/stabbing/shooting/running over/what-ever, those that run from things will run, and those that stand and fight will fight. No clue-less politician issue avoidance word games are needed.
.
via Square Bear: Chris2303 I agree...
But perhaps Flying Binghi, could explain the difference between:
"Brace
Brace
Brace" etc...
and
"Run
Hide
Tell"
I still remember from decades ago;
Stop,
Drop,
Roll,
....if ever on fire.
To my way off thinking, simplifying to 3 rudimentary and easily remembered words is pretty damm smart.....considering every one in the real world does not walk around with, nor are required to follow, a QRH.
Unfortunately running in situations such as this thread refers to may not such a good idea ala the terrible death in 2005 of Mr de Menezes.
But perhaps Flying Binghi, could explain the difference between:
"Brace
Brace
Brace" etc...
and
"Run
Hide
Tell"
I still remember from decades ago;
Stop,
Drop,
Roll,
....if ever on fire.
To my way off thinking, simplifying to 3 rudimentary and easily remembered words is pretty damm smart.....considering every one in the real world does not walk around with, nor are required to follow, a QRH.
Unfortunately running in situations such as this thread refers to may not such a good idea ala the terrible death in 2005 of Mr de Menezes.
"...the difference..."
The "Brace" and "stop, drop, roll" mnemonics (? If that's the right word for it) are for fairly well defined situations. The Brace instruction is for somebody in an aircraft seat with no other options (unless wearing a parachute) and Stop-Drop-Roll is for somebody on fire. These unthinking reaction aids are for an unforeseen well defined accident situation.
The pathetic Run-Hide-Tell instruction on the other hand is being given out by our so-called leaders in response to random method islamic terrorism attacks. Attacks that are happening because the reason for the attacks is not being removed.
For an example of where Run-Hide-Tell don't work just look to the YouTube vids on the recent concert bomb attack where the person doing the post explosion public address system instructions is clearly telling people to not panic and walk to the exits.
At the end of the day, when faced with a nutter running around bomb-threatening/stabbing/shooting/running over/what-ever, those that run from things will run, and those that stand and fight will fight. No clue-less politician issue avoidance word games are needed.
.
For an example of where Run-Hide-Tell don't work just look to the YouTube vids on the recent concert bomb attack where the person doing the post explosion public address system instructions is clearly telling people to not panic and walk to the exits.
The management would not have had a clear idea of the threat. If at the very least they knew there was an explosion (a loud bang was heard) it makes sense to ask patrons to sit tight because
1/ in such an open auditorium the effects of a bomb are far less than in the packed corridors.
2/ risk of injury due to a stampede are real.
Man with a gun is a different scenario.
In a very large venue with police present there is a case for patrons to "duck" so police or have a go heros can quickly run toward the perp.
Asking entire auditorium to exit does nothing to neutralise the shooter quickly nor does it deprive him of targets.
But in a smaller venue without police an evacuation is probably best of the crappy choices.
mickjoebill