Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Rex incident YSSY

Old 23rd Mar 2017, 02:27
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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DUBBO IFSD (In Flight Shut Down) all over ABC News 24.

All the pieces on the REX 340 picture coming together to make an overall picture for me.

Sure media are digging for more. Will be interesting to see what they uncover.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 02:29
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by spinex View Post
That prop flange was removed by the ATSB recovery team before the prop was transported to the bat cave. I suspect the photos/video we're seeing were taken during the removal process.
That makes sense.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 03:58
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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Tis said it was the FO's first day on the job. What an introduction.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 04:45
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dean View Post
That makes sense.
That does not make one iota of sense to me. Why would the ATSB remove a part out in the bush rather than in the controlled environment of its 'bat cave'. What was the advantage or necessity of removing a part in situ?

Nonetheless, that's a much better explanation - if true - than the alternative.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 04:49
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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And another one today...

A Regional Express (Rex) flight travelling from Dubbo to Sydney was forced to make an emergency landing at Dubbo Airport on Thursday morning.

It is believed 26 people were on board, with early indications pointing to engine failure as the cause of the landing.

After departing at 9.33am, the plane circled Dubbo multiple times, then landed shortly after 10am.

An announcement made at the terminal indicated a flight from Parkes to Sydney would divert to Dubbo to pick up passengers.

The incident comes less than a week after a propeller detached from a Rex plane on the Albury-Sydney route, about 18 kilometres from Sydney Airport.

A statement from Orana Local Area Command outlined Thursday's incident.

“Police from Dubbo, along with NSW Fire and Rescue and NSW Ambulance officers attended Dubbo Airport about 10am today,” it read.

“It was reported that a Saab 340 aircraft approaching Dubbo, operated by Rex Airlines, was experiencing engine trouble and was awaiting emergency landing instructions.

“At the time the aircraft had 23 passengers and 3 crew on board.

“The emergency response plan for airport emergencies was activated and, once emergency agencies were in place at the airport, the aircraft made a successful landing with one engine shut down.

"The captain described the landing as 'normal' and according to procedure.

"None of the passengers or crew were injured and none presented for treatment to NSW Ambulance staff.

"The matter will now be investigated by CASA and the aircraft grounded pending the outcome of the investigation."
Rex flight en route to Sydney makes emergency landing at Dubbo Airport
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 05:08
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
That does not make one iota of sense to me. Why would the ATSB remove a part out in the bush rather than in the controlled environment of its 'bat cave'. What was the advantage or necessity of removing a part in situ?

Nonetheless, that's a much better explanation - if true - than the alternative.
That's probably because you would rather believe the engineers didn't torque the prop nuts correctly, your dislike of the workers is well known.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:35
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe so they could fit it into a prop dolly for transport?

Wunwing
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:43
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
It is not obvious to me why ATSB would have considered it necessary or prudent to remove components on site. Do you have any insight into that?
Someone must have considered it a very important piece of evidence, and didn't want to let it out of their sight....
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:38
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wunwing View Post
Maybe so they could fit it into a prop dolly for transport?

Wunwing
Ha ha, have you seen the photos? Tied down, spinner up and resting on an old tyre on the back of a flat bed.

I don't know the ATSB's protocols, but I'm inclined to think that if they documented the whole thing properly, it may have been as well to remove the bit of obvious interest instead of entrusting it to a flingwing driver to deliver safely They'd have looked right silly if the thing had slipped its tethers and dropped flange first onto some nice hard surface this time, destroying all that nice evidence of whatever made that shaft cry enough.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 10:36
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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So p.j.m, I am curious as to why you published a close up of the place where this apparently very important piece of evidence used to be fitted, rather than a close up of it in situ before removal.

And how is it that anyone at that site had authority to publish any photos of it?

All very odd.

Last edited by Lead Balloon; 23rd Mar 2017 at 10:46.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 10:57
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry, mystery may be solved.

Those threaded bolts are just that, bolts. Tourqued from the opposite side to hold the prop on.

Apparently nothing to see here.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 11:20
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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The bolts that hold the prop on are a red herring in an incident in which the prop came off? The bit to which they were bolted, and whether they were correctly bolted to it, may not be.

I still don't get why the removal of the apparently very important piece of evidence resulted in a bolt that has a washer and nut on it, some bolts with a washer remaining on them and some bolts with neither.

All very odd.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 15:43
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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I've had 2 free turbine blades depart their scene after landing which made a horrible noise/vibration above ground idle but all engine indications normal...

Once fuel was cut the prop stopped dead - bits of mashed up blade jammed the FPT. It sent an almighty shudder through the airframe and I imagine a reasonable force through the prop shaft.

Could a sudden total seizure of the FPT, with additional aerodynamic forces, result in what happened?
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 00:15
  #234 (permalink)  
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I still don't get why the removal of the apparently very important piece of evidence resulted in a bolt that has a washer and nut on it, some bolts with a washer remaining on them and some bolts with neither.
Maybe someone was trigger happy with the camera and took photos half way through the removal of said piece.
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 05:59
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
So p.j.m, I am curious as to why you published a close up of the place where this apparently very important piece of evidence used to be fitted, rather than a close up of it in situ before removal.
You must have also missed the big "7 News" logo plastered all over them. I didn't take the photos, they were part of the local television news story, what they broadcast is what we got to see.
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 08:38
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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I see Band A Lot's post and my response has been magically 'disappeared', but the accusation he made about my 'dislike of the workers' has been repeated and is allowed to remain in Eddie Dean's post. For the record: Yes, I really do dislike the workers. I'd never condescend to getting my hands dirty on maintaining aircraft. Except for the last 42 years....

Anyway, p.j.m, just because there's a 7 logo on everything 7 broadcasts does not mean 7 took the photos/videos.

If 7 journos took the photos/videos themselves, that would also be odd because I don't understand why they would have been given close-up access to the site.

And - again for the record - the "alternative" to which I am referring is sabotage, not negligent maintenance.
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 23:57
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
I see Band A Lot's post and my response has been magically 'disappeared', but the accusation he made about my 'dislike of the workers' has been repeated and is allowed to remain in Eddie Dean's post. For the record: Yes, I really do dislike the workers. I'd never condescend to getting my hands dirty on maintaining aircraft. Except for the last 42 years....

Anyway, p.j.m, just because there's a 7 logo on everything 7 broadcasts does not mean 7 took the photos/videos.

If 7 journos took the photos/videos themselves, that would also be odd because I don't understand why they would have been given close-up access to the site.

And - again for the record - the "alternative" to which I am referring is sabotage, not negligent maintenance.

1st its studs and nuts and not BOLTS big difference.
2nd there is zero damage to the studs. Indicating that the prop nuts are correctly torqued.

To make any suggestions that off in proper maintenance is not only liable but flase.
In your industry the saying is , to defend ones self you have a fool for a client. And then you can at worse end up in the big house.
To perform your own maintenance and get your hands dirty and make a mistake you end up in a box. Please go and do your LAME exams and let us know how you go.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 02:22
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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It seems Rex might have a bit of a problem with another SAAB. VH-ZRC flew into Julia Creek as RXA5627 on 24th March but apparently did not leave. Later that day a replacement aircraft, VH-ZRI, flew to YJLC from Brisbane and completed the balance of the rotation to Mt Isa and back to Townsville. According to both FlightAware and FR24, ZRC has not flown anywhere since. Unless the ADS-B is inoperative it might still be on the ground at YJLC more than a week later.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 08:29
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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Did anyone else think Paul Cleary's article, with expert opinion by Byron Bailey, in the Australian a load of drivel?

How Rex pilots narrowly avoided disaster after plane lost propeller

The Saab 340 had to make an emergency landing at Sydney Airport. Picture: Grahame Hutchison.




Senior writer
Sydney


The 26-year-old Regional Express turboprop that lost its propeller this month narrowly avoided cat­astrophe when the pilots took quick action to shut down an overheating engine, according to a source who has spoken to the crew.

Unlike jet engines, the aircraft’s turboprop engine has a gearbox, which pilot and aviation expert Byron Bailey says is its “weak link”. Mr Bailey said the crew was shutting down the engine because gearbox problems were causing the temperature to rise.
He said that had the pilots not taken action to shut it down, the propeller would have “been spinning faster and it could have impacted the fuselage”.
Rex has suffered three incidents this month, with another SAAB 340 turboprop having to return to Dubbo with engine trouble, while a third aircraft returned to Sydney after the crew heard air noise associated with the ground communications hatch. Industry experts say the root cause of these problems is the age of the Rex fleet, which at 23 years is the oldest of any public airline in Australia.
Rex compares poorly with other smaller airlines such as Virgin Regional, Airnorth and Cob­ham, which have a fleet age of 15-18 years. Its planes are three times older than those of Qantas and Virgin Australia.
Mr Bailey said the effective age of the Rex fleet was much older because its 52 Saabs had “very high utilisation”.
He said he was also concerned about the Rex pilots, who were worked very hard and paid poorly.
The age and fleet size of companies
Rex declined to answer a series of questions put by The Australian about the age of the fleet and any plans the company might have to modernise it. However, the company provided a blanket response.
“Since Regional Express (Rex) started operations in 2002, Rex has carried out in excess of 1 million take offs and landings. Rex has had a perfect safety record and has never suffered any injury related to flight operations. This is a testimony to Rex’s extremely high levels of standards in both engineering and flight operations,” a company spokeswoman said in a written statement.
“Rex is constantly scanning and analysing the regional aviation environment and making plans for the long-term sustainability of services to regional Australia. The issues faced are complex and multi-faceted and several parameters need to be carefully considered when making such long-term plans. Rex will communicate its decision when definite plans have been made.”
Rex remains Australia’s largest independent airline, operating 1500 weekly flights to 58 destinations throughout Australia. The group comprises Regional Express, air freight and charter operator Pel-Air Aviation and the Dubbo-based regional airline Air Link.
Immediately after the company was formed in 2002, a group of Singaporean investors swooped and acquired more than 30 per cent of the shares. This ad-hoc group now has more than 50 per cent, plus two board seats.
Executive chairman Kim Hai Lim, who owns 17 per cent of the business, has warned that regional aviation in Australia is facing intense cost pressures.
“It would be ironic if the decimation and collapse of regional aviation in Australia took place under the Nationals’ watch,’’ Mr Lim said at the time when Brindabella Airlines, the business founded by the CASA chairman Jeff Boyd, went into receivership.
But Rex has been a profitable airline. While it recorded a $9.6 million loss in the 2016 financial year, Rex returned to the black in its latest half with a pre-tax profit of $8.6m. Aside from the 2016 loss, the business has generated sustained profits over the past decade.
Dick Smith is a big fan of the airline, which he says plays a vital role in regional Australia.
He said it was “quite a competent airline” and “we are fortunate to have them”. However, the business was a victim of increased costs imposed by CASA’s regulations, such as the new digital tracking system ADS-B.
He said big airlines could afford to pay for new safety systems because they amounted to a few dollars per passenger, but for smaller airlines “like Rex, that’s when they descend into bankruptcy”.
Aviation expert Byron Bailey praised the action taken by the pilots in the recent incident, saying it was a case of a “good crew and good training”.
“The engine was playing up and the pilots were in the process of shutting it down. The co-pilot looked out the window and that’s when the propeller came off. It was in a low power setting.”
He said colleagues who had flown the Saabs said that when they have gearbox problems, this raised the engine temperature. He believes the gearbox seized up.
“The engine had been fluctuating as the temperature was going up. The engine was overcoming the drag inside the gearbox.
“For the propeller to fly off, there must have been stress on the shaft. The only thing that could do that is the gear box seizing up.”
Unlike jet engines, the aircraft’s turboprop engine has a gearbox, which pilot and aviation expert Byron Bailey says is its “weak link”.
Really???

And;

He said that had the pilots not taken action to shut it down, the propeller would have “been spinning faster and it could have impacted the fuselage”.
Really???

And;

Industry experts say the root cause of these problems is the age of the Rex fleet, which at 23 years is the oldest of any public airline in Australia.
Do Rex really have more tech issues? I seem to recall some newer aircraft that have had considerable tech issues over the years, 787s and 380s have not been exactly the epitome of reliability.


Mr Bailey said the effective age of the Rex fleet was much older because its 52 Saabs had “very high utilisation”.
Really?

And;

“The engine had been fluctuating as the temperature was going up. The engine was overcoming the drag inside the gearbox.
“For the propeller to fly off, there must have been stress on the shaft. The only thing that could do that is the gear box seizing up.”
Really? But let's see what ATSB find.


We have all seen a few catastrophic jet engine failures. More recently the 787 and 380 have not been exactly trouble free.


I think the old SAABs/CT7s fare pretty well, and REX's maintenance is also pretty good!
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 11:19
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Originally Posted by hiwaytohell View Post
Did anyone else think Paul Cleary's article, with expert opinion by Byron Bailey, in the Australian a load of drivel?


Really???

And;

Really???

And;

Do Rex really have more tech issues? I seem to recall some newer aircraft that have had considerable tech issues over the years, 787s and 380s have not been exactly the epitome of reliability.


Really?

And;

Really? But let's see what ATSB find.


We have all seen a few catastrophic jet engine failures. More recently the 787 and 380 have not been exactly trouble free.


I think the old SAABs/CT7s fare pretty well, and REX's maintenance is also pretty good!

Can't say I'm a fan of Byron Bailey's. Have seen him several times on TV & tend to tune him out.

DF.
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