Pilot shortage
Given the number of multinational companies that domicile people all over the world it isn't really that big of a deal. For the Middle Eastern Carriers its about providing income to its local economy hence why no remote bases. However if this really is a pilot shortage I don't know why they just start opening at least a European base. It has to be better than grounding aircraft.
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Well, I'd say that one reason is that it would place them them under the jurisdiction of EU labor laws, and in courts where the judges don't serve at the pleasure of the company's owners. I'm guessing that's a powerful disincentive.
Last edited by A Squared; 2nd May 2018 at 11:05.
Cathay Pacific has had bases for over twenty years. However, after a time the company found that the rest of the world was not one big 'Hong Kong' with loose labour laws and a cosy relationship with the government and the regulator. The company soon found that complying with First World labor laws and their unchanged archaic rostering system rendered bases, to them, too hard in the end, despite all the money they saved on housing, children's education and medical. For the last decade bases have 'withered on the vine' as based crew leave, and these crew are not being replaced. A couple of bases have been closed. However, bases will never be completely eliminated, as they need some sort of carrot to lure impressionable young pilots to subsist in Hong Kong for years hanging on in quiet desperation. Even the Communist Chinese are offering good salaries, bases and commuting rosters. But not Cathay Pacific.
Furthermore, SOs joining under the latest conditions are so cheap, there is no longer any point in the airline opening up base slots. Years ago, direct entry FOs were employed directly into bases, where 'basing companies' had to be set up to comply with local labor laws. That may have been the origin of the 'external company' rumour. But if the rumour mill is correct, a recent attempt to sucker direct entry FOs to join on a Hong Kong base was not an overwhelming success.
Having said all that, CX is losing pilots at quite a rapid rate due to their poor employment conditions in one of the world's most expensive cities, but bizarrely, 'management' is still going out of its way to piss off their most important and responsible employees. Why, I don't know. CX has and is about to lose pilots to QANTAS and many other airlines, numbers reputedly in the three figures this year. They are being replaced by more 'shiny jetters' being lured to Hong Kong willing to accept the crap conditions, and of course, as many local pilots as they can recruit and train (even that is becoming a problem for them). But toxic relations with management, a difficult and expensive city to live in, its airspace becoming a shambles, limited training capacity and a relatively young captain demographic is driving quite a churn in the junior ranks. On ULH flights, CX now uses double SO crews, so CX SOs work for even more years on a concocted 'P2X' rating which counts for nothing outside while their mates amass log-able experience and progress up the seniority list at their home airlines. So, interesting times ahead for this outfit if they don't do something. And I am not optimistic that they will.
Furthermore, SOs joining under the latest conditions are so cheap, there is no longer any point in the airline opening up base slots. Years ago, direct entry FOs were employed directly into bases, where 'basing companies' had to be set up to comply with local labor laws. That may have been the origin of the 'external company' rumour. But if the rumour mill is correct, a recent attempt to sucker direct entry FOs to join on a Hong Kong base was not an overwhelming success.
Having said all that, CX is losing pilots at quite a rapid rate due to their poor employment conditions in one of the world's most expensive cities, but bizarrely, 'management' is still going out of its way to piss off their most important and responsible employees. Why, I don't know. CX has and is about to lose pilots to QANTAS and many other airlines, numbers reputedly in the three figures this year. They are being replaced by more 'shiny jetters' being lured to Hong Kong willing to accept the crap conditions, and of course, as many local pilots as they can recruit and train (even that is becoming a problem for them). But toxic relations with management, a difficult and expensive city to live in, its airspace becoming a shambles, limited training capacity and a relatively young captain demographic is driving quite a churn in the junior ranks. On ULH flights, CX now uses double SO crews, so CX SOs work for even more years on a concocted 'P2X' rating which counts for nothing outside while their mates amass log-able experience and progress up the seniority list at their home airlines. So, interesting times ahead for this outfit if they don't do something. And I am not optimistic that they will.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 2nd May 2018 at 11:36.
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Air Asia X
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...-million-video
It would appear the fuel price is more of a concern to Air Asia than their ability to crew aircraft. I find it a little odd that oil price was mentioned on several occasions during the interview but nothing on pilot numbers or recruitment - Bloomberg has had pretty consistent coverage on the global ‘pilot shortage’ for the last year.
Given the current recruiting of DEC and DESFO, pilot shortages may not be the crocodile closest to the canoe for AA but it’s probably one of the biggest, and getting closer.
KL is a great/fun/affordable place (hopefully more so under the new Gov) but AA can’t compete globally with their current T&C’s; tic toc!
It would appear the fuel price is more of a concern to Air Asia than their ability to crew aircraft. I find it a little odd that oil price was mentioned on several occasions during the interview but nothing on pilot numbers or recruitment - Bloomberg has had pretty consistent coverage on the global ‘pilot shortage’ for the last year.
Given the current recruiting of DEC and DESFO, pilot shortages may not be the crocodile closest to the canoe for AA but it’s probably one of the biggest, and getting closer.
KL is a great/fun/affordable place (hopefully more so under the new Gov) but AA can’t compete globally with their current T&C’s; tic toc!
They have a large in house cadet scheme that’s why. Don’t even get me started on the quality of it.
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They have a large in house cadet scheme that’s why. Don’t even get me started on the quality of it.
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I noticed on today's afap website, a major flying school in Sydney has advertised for gde 1/2/3 instructors, also for instructors from NZ to come across.
It seems they're advertising for a decent number of staff.
The instructors that have left, where are they going to?
Qlink? US? Rex? Turbine jobs?
During the last few weeks, Rex advertised for instructors for their Wagga training facility, also Melbourne and Tamworth academy's continue to advertise.
It appears the shortage of qualified pilots in general aviation is continuing to accelerate.
It seems they're advertising for a decent number of staff.
The instructors that have left, where are they going to?
Qlink? US? Rex? Turbine jobs?
During the last few weeks, Rex advertised for instructors for their Wagga training facility, also Melbourne and Tamworth academy's continue to advertise.
It appears the shortage of qualified pilots in general aviation is continuing to accelerate.
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I noticed on today's afap website, a major flying school in Sydney has advertised for gde 1/2/3 instructors, also for instructors from NZ to come across.
It seems they're advertising for a decent number of staff.
The instructors that have left, where are they going to?
Qlink? US? Rex? Turbine jobs?
During the last few weeks, Rex advertised for instructors for their Wagga training facility, also Melbourne and Tamworth academy's continue to advertise.
It appears the shortage of qualified pilots in general aviation is continuing to accelerate.
It seems they're advertising for a decent number of staff.
The instructors that have left, where are they going to?
Qlink? US? Rex? Turbine jobs?
During the last few weeks, Rex advertised for instructors for their Wagga training facility, also Melbourne and Tamworth academy's continue to advertise.
It appears the shortage of qualified pilots in general aviation is continuing to accelerate.
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REX really need to lose the whole airlines are 'poaching' our pilots rhetoric it's just a ridiculous statement on so many levels.
And now they want to be paid by airlines for people leaving?? What planet are these guys on??
And now they want to be paid by airlines for people leaving?? What planet are these guys on??
REX need to take a good hard look at themselves before they start blaming the major carriers. I have flown with plenty of former REX Captains who left because REX was sending them all over the country and calling it a temporary transfer so they didn't pay DTA. A lot of those people were happy to work for REX but wanted the lifestyle stability.
Agree. I've heard now from a number of ex long term Rex captains that we're happy to see their career out at Rex, now leave for the majors because the Rex lifestyle went out the window so they thought they may as well move to an airline and at least make money while being away from home.
The mian reason pilots leave the regionals is because the lifestyle is no longer there and the money should be higher. Fix these two and there won't be a "shortage" problem.
The mian reason pilots leave the regionals is because the lifestyle is no longer there and the money should be higher. Fix these two and there won't be a "shortage" problem.
If you had an accounting or law degree, left a company to go to another (as lawyers and accountants do!) do they pay the previous company for poaching you??? What a joke REX
Even REX with their 750 hour minimum. If they lowered theirs to 200 hours (like all their cadets graduate with), then maybe they would get an extra year or two of service out of each pilot they hire. With 750 hours, you would be ready to move on pretty soon after you started with them.
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Folks,
A key labour unit cost reduction metric was to effectively outsource that component related to 'flight training'. It is a cornerstone of the Low Fare Airline employment model. Whether a fully self funded candidate or one whom you indenture with a 'cadet ship' the accounting was neat: Very little actual investment by the company.
The necessary component to ensure such through put was unlimited supply of applicants. Faced with a structural shortage, labour unit cost is beginning the slow march to mean reversion. Airlines need pilots, pilots generate operating revenue. Unfortunately airlines will try everything in order to protect their supply, until eventually increasing the requisite terms and conditions necessary to ensure supply.
A key labour unit cost reduction metric was to effectively outsource that component related to 'flight training'. It is a cornerstone of the Low Fare Airline employment model. Whether a fully self funded candidate or one whom you indenture with a 'cadet ship' the accounting was neat: Very little actual investment by the company.
The necessary component to ensure such through put was unlimited supply of applicants. Faced with a structural shortage, labour unit cost is beginning the slow march to mean reversion. Airlines need pilots, pilots generate operating revenue. Unfortunately airlines will try everything in order to protect their supply, until eventually increasing the requisite terms and conditions necessary to ensure supply.
“Raping and pillaging”? They want big airlines to compensate them for stealing heir crew?
Fine. Backpay all the GA operators you’ve “raped and pillaged” pilots from over the last 10 years - then you’d be in a position to expect the same from the big boys.
I bet you weren’t compensating GAM all these years they provided you with piles of twin drivers.
These muppets will never realise that if you want to only provide regional pay, you need to provide regional lifestyle. They’ll just keep blaming everyone else.
Fine. Backpay all the GA operators you’ve “raped and pillaged” pilots from over the last 10 years - then you’d be in a position to expect the same from the big boys.
I bet you weren’t compensating GAM all these years they provided you with piles of twin drivers.
These muppets will never realise that if you want to only provide regional pay, you need to provide regional lifestyle. They’ll just keep blaming everyone else.
For the last few decades employers have squeezed the orange and now the pips are squeaking. $100 000 outlay to get started followed by poor pay and conditions put a lot of suitable people off entering the industry at all. Companies took full advantage of previous pilot surpluses and can’t complain now that the boot is on the other foot.
From the small GA operator who could easily fill his requirements from walk in applicants and never had to advertise, right up to the second tier who had the entire food chain below them willing to finance their own A320/B737 rating, its being felt. What wasn’t considered was that most of the applicants on file were also on file elsewhere and hardly anyone bothered to update that they got another job and weren’t interested anymore. The hold files thinned considerably once they were followed up. I can’t ever remember seeing so many jobs on the AFAP website, many from employers who never normally had to do more than make a few phone calls if they needed crew.
The suction effect from the top is getting stronger and being felt by everyone, from the 800hr C206 pilot in the Northern Territory whose employer is trying to get the insurance minimums reduced so he fly a twin, to the junior Jetstar Captain who can double his pay and go straight onto an A330 in China
A flying job in Australia is an attractive way of making a living as long as the pay and conditions are right. A nice lifestyle, good climate and infrastructure, safety and the rule of law count for a great deal and would be enough to keep many people at home instead of chasing the $$$ in Asia or the Middle East.
QANTAS still provide a good career and lifestyle a won’t be short as long as they plan correctly and possibly widen the net a bit.
From the small GA operator who could easily fill his requirements from walk in applicants and never had to advertise, right up to the second tier who had the entire food chain below them willing to finance their own A320/B737 rating, its being felt. What wasn’t considered was that most of the applicants on file were also on file elsewhere and hardly anyone bothered to update that they got another job and weren’t interested anymore. The hold files thinned considerably once they were followed up. I can’t ever remember seeing so many jobs on the AFAP website, many from employers who never normally had to do more than make a few phone calls if they needed crew.
The suction effect from the top is getting stronger and being felt by everyone, from the 800hr C206 pilot in the Northern Territory whose employer is trying to get the insurance minimums reduced so he fly a twin, to the junior Jetstar Captain who can double his pay and go straight onto an A330 in China
A flying job in Australia is an attractive way of making a living as long as the pay and conditions are right. A nice lifestyle, good climate and infrastructure, safety and the rule of law count for a great deal and would be enough to keep many people at home instead of chasing the $$$ in Asia or the Middle East.
QANTAS still provide a good career and lifestyle a won’t be short as long as they plan correctly and possibly widen the net a bit.
to the junior Jetstar Captain who can double his pay and go straight onto an A330 in China
A nice lifestyle, good climate and infrastructure, safety and the rule of law count for a great deal and would be enough to keep many people at home instead of chasing the $$$ in Asia or the Middle East.
A nice lifestyle, good climate and infrastructure, safety and the rule of law count for a great deal and would be enough to keep many people at home instead of chasing the $$$ in Asia or the Middle East.