Virgin Australia recruitment

[Colonel_Klink]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

So that is what you believe it costs to turn a competent line FO on a B737 into a captain?

Given that the current command upgrade program is 8x4 hour sims (using up the time of a check captain and a support FO) as well as then all of the line training sectors (which I know are revenue flights - but given FOs are now paid as captains from day 1 of training, that’s two captains salaries up the front instead of normally one) - I would imagine to upgrade a competent FO to Captain is actually more expensive than $40k

[Snakecharma]

To put 1 existing capt into the 777 costs about 900k.

some will scoff at that figure, but think about all the consequential training, the cost of the sims, line training, salaries during ground schools etc and it doesn’t take too much imagination to suspect that the above figure is close to the mark.

[Capt. On Heat]

I’m not sure what untruths you’re talking about - VARA (Skywest) can thank the AFAP for Integration. Had that not occurred - what do you think would have happened to the F50 pilots or all of the ATR pilots when they got rid of half their fleet. All of those people still have jobs because of the way Integration allowed for the transfer of pilot in an orderly and fair process throughout the group.

Integration is hardly a wedge - that’s a very simplistic naïve view of how things have worked out.

My apologies for the misunderstanding, I was referring to the integration carrot being used by Virgin (and why wouldn't they) as leverage against every other clause in the EBA (I wasn't meaning necessarily wedges between pilot groups). The AFAP was obsessed with it being included from minute one, at the expense of everything else. As with everything in life, there are many ways to skin a cat and I believe (as I think history has shown) there was a better way to have done it. Due to the AFAP naivety this was scuppered from the beginning.
In any case, VARA can thank SALPA for integration. It's initial form was improved only by virtue of the SALPA efforts and then the majority membership to have it voted in. When the caddy suggests a 9 iron out of the rough, but Tiger steps up and instead smacks a pitching wedge onto the green - the caddy doesn't get the credit.

The F50 pilots had jobs because of their place on the VARA list, the intent of the company, other clauses in the EBA and negotiations with SALPA - not because of integration. To try to imply they would have been made redundant if it wasn't for the AFAP and integration is extremely misleading.

[Colonel_Klink]

The reason the AFAP was obsessed with it is because they were able to see the Forrest through the trees. Unlike Qantas, Virgin Group Pilots now have Integration across the entire group. The Company is unlikely to be able to play the Groups off against each other. VARA’s 320 Pilots are paid a comparable amount to VA 73 PH pilots. This is a good thing - you won’t have the situation like at QF where Network 320 pilots earn significantly less than QF 73 pilots.

How else was VARA Integration supposed to go than without having a cap (Genuine question)? It may be all well and good for the WA pilots who were never likely to transfer en masse to mainline, but for ATR pilots there was the real possibility that they would have lost over 75% of captains in less than an 18 month period. That’s unsustainable and would have shutdown that operation.

Whilst you may be right about the F50 pilots and their relative position on the VARA list (I concede that point as I am not completely familiar with all of the pilot’s positions at that time), I do know a number transferred to the ATR, 777 and possibly VANZ due to Integration that AFAP drove. I’m not trying to be misleading, and I note that you failed to mention what would have had happened to half the ATR pilots when their fleet was reduced by half. Also interesting to point out is that the BNE ATR captains who had their base closed weren’t forced to CBR o SYD but were given firm commuting rights, again thanks to the AFAP.

[roundhouse]

So back to recruitment, I’m hearing expect a wait until August until any start dates?

[Colonel_Klink]

Originally Posted by roundhouse

So back to recruitment, I’m hearing expect a wait until August until any start dates?

Fair Point!

The Resource Update released in Jan had:
- More than 10 window seats on WB
- 16 SO positions
​​​​​​- More than 35 positions on Aus NB
- More than 20 positions on NZ NB
- More than 20 positions on ATR

The update did not include TT positions or VARA positions, and does not include the backfilling of positions (ie SO upgrades to 73 FO). I think it’s safe to say if you’re on the hold file you will get a call, especially as training ramps up. As an FYI they are desperate for guys to go to NZ and struggling to fill courses.

Good luck to those waiting.

[roundhouse]

Thanks for the update mate!! Was that forecast for the whole year?

[Colonel_Klink]

Sure is - as I said though, doesn’t include TT or VARA West Coast. From what I can gather TT has steadily been recruiting FOs for last 12 months, as has VARA for F100 drivers.

These figures dont include consequentials either, and by that I mean:

- 777 Captain position taken by 737 Captain.
- That 737 captain is replaced by an A330 FO
- That A330 FO is replaced by another less junior 737 Captain (or one that wants a lifestyle change)
- That 737 Captain is replaced by a 737 FO
- That 737 FO is replaced by a 777 SO
- That 777 SO is replaced by a guy off the street.

So you can see a single position can result in significant movement across the Group!

[pyrophoenix]

So any idea how large the hold file is now? In particular for VANZ?

[virginexcess]

Also interesting to point out is that the BNE ATR captains who had their base closed weren’t forced to CBR o SYD but were given firm commuting rights, again thanks to the AFAP.

Attributing that to the AFAP is drawing a pretty long bow. Confirmed commuting rights within the group came as a result of the original 777 EBA that morphed into the WB EBA. Prior to the original LH EBA, nobody in Virgin had any commuting rights at all. The LH EBA introduced them in the form of "own way travel" the WB enshrined them. The original "own way travel" was driven wholly by VIPA. Sure the AFAP supported it, but not for one minute was it their idea or their argument. All commuting rights within the Virgin Group stem from that win by the 777 pilots. To be fair to the Feds, they had equal input to the commuting rights won in the WB EBA, but again, that was a 100% VIPA proposal when the EBA was still 777 only and all pilots were Sydney based. To say otherwise is reinventing history.

[JoeTripodi]

there are currently cadets (last years intake) going directly onto the 777

[Chadzat]

I think there is quite a bit of history re-invention going on with AFAPs #1 fanboy here on this thread.

[Stretch06]

Originally Posted by Bumble_Pilot

Anyone know if VA allow SO's to fly elsewhere on their time off?

Originally Posted by FedupSo

Yes, but have an hour limitation of 100hrs per year.

Bumble, Yes
Fedup, can do more that 100, just so long as you don't jeopardise any rostered Virgin duty.

[Thewnz]

has anyone recently started with VANZ and have some insight into length of training time away from NZ? also by the looks of the CEA are you paid a full FO wage from the very start of training?

[Aussie-kiwi]

Originally Posted by Thewnz

has anyone recently started with VANZ and have some insight into length of training time away from NZ? also by the looks of the CEA are you paid a full FO wage from the very start of training?

General gist is first 3 weeks in Auckland, then 5 weeks in AU for the TR, then three sets of 4 days away for a total of 7 VA sims in AU, two days in Auckland in the middle of those sims somewhere, for a line training brief, then line training.

If if you have a start, get those Boeing CBT is done before your TR, and try to get the flows as memorised as possible. (-:

As per the CEA, pay is from date of induction (your first day)

[Thewnz]

Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated. Is the line training essentially based out of Auckland?

[Aussie-kiwi]

Originally Posted by Thewnz

Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated. Is the line training essentially based out of Auckland?

Yes. You get rostered out of the base you are offered and accept (although they will change some positioning flights if you live elsewhere)

[Thewnz]

Does anybody have any ideas how the change in CEO may affect hiring NZ based FO's? Have heard various things regarding Tiger taking over trans tasman but also that virgin have injected a lot of resources to try and compete with Air NZ etc

[belongamick]

Originally Posted by Thewnz

Does anybody have any ideas how the change in CEO may affect hiring NZ based FO's? Have heard various things regarding Tiger taking over trans tasman but also that virgin have injected a lot of resources to try and compete with Air NZ etc

The new guy running the joint literally took over the shop today. How could anyone know the answer to your questions with any certainty?

[Thewnz]

Not meaning to be naive but people in the company may already have heard certain rumours etc especially if the news is already talking about tiger. This is a rumour website after all