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Old 17th Jul 2018, 22:05
  #721 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JPJP
The same way every other decent airline deals with crewing it’s smallest lowest paying aircraft ?
I guess they could go back to being like Qantas link with no group seniority and leave pilots hanging around in the hope of one day getting a non-guaranteed future start date with mainline in a few years time?
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 22:41
  #722 (permalink)  
 
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Qlink have been offering interviews and providing start dates to internals for a position with mainline. VA have ATR pilots firmly in the middle of their GDOJ however they have no time frame to bid off the type and are also the lowest paid amongst the group. The pilots are likely to sit there for around 10 years before any movement.

The simple solution is for VA to improve the pay and conditions on the ATR and apply freezes and bonds to new joiners. They can then allow the usual flow that a seniority list creates while keeping things fair. Any new VA pilots should be joining as ATR foís so they can continue to release people to other types.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:26
  #723 (permalink)  
 
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And initial commands in VA should be as an ATR Captain with a freeze period.That will cover the L/H seat requirements.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:37
  #724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mates rates
And initial commands in VA should be as an ATR Captain with a freeze period.That will cover the L/H seat requirements.
There's an idea! And how many FO's from the 737, 777, 330 with a previous life as a turbo-prop Captain, would you think will not tell you to F...off and leave you with no airline? And how about if I was coming off the 777 or 330 as a Senior FO. Would my pay reflect over $200K to be a Captain on the ATR glider or would I half my pay?
L.B

Last edited by "Littlebird"; 18th Jul 2018 at 13:53.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:37
  #725 (permalink)  
 
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By the time this EBA plays out and all done with, I would expect most of the current ATR pilots would have had a start date and left for another airline. Yes I imagine a lot of experience with an ATPL out the door! Yes not a very good example of utilising your current resources and a retention policy.

Bobyyy1 is right. The only way forward really is to have new joiners start on the ATR as FO or CAPT depending on their experience, on a new salary scale and a pre determined fixed term minimum service prior to progressing to the jet fleet. This would facilitate a system that could be transparent, fair and work seamlessly.
If the rumours are true, employing someone out of GA directly to the 737 or even 777 as SO on the east coast in front of your current pilots wanting and deserving these opportunities, is called corporate suicide.
Remember Big Daddy Branson's wisdom, 'treat your employees well and they will run the business for you'. No word of a lie ☺ L.B
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 17:24
  #726 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by "Littlebird"
By the time this EBA plays out and all done with, I would expect most of the current ATR pilots would have had a start date and left for another airline. Yes I imagine a lot of experience with an ATPL out the door! Yes not a very good example of utilising your current resources and a retention policy.

Bobyyy1 is right. The only way forward really is to have new joiners start on the ATR as FO or CAPT depending on their experience, on a new salary scale and a pre determined fixed term minimum service prior to progressing to the jet fleet. This would facilitate a system that could be transparent, fair and work seamlessly.
If the rumours are true, employing someone out of GA directly to the 737 or even 777 as SO on the east coast in front of your current pilots wanting and deserving these opportunities, is called corporate suicide.
Remember Big Daddy Branson's wisdom, 'treat your employees well and they will run the business for you'. No word of a lie ☺ L.B
Or an even simpler option would be to pay bypass/withholding pay. Problem solved until the ATR fleet disappears.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 19:38
  #727 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee


I guess they could go back to being like Qantas link with no group seniority and leave pilots hanging around in the hope of one day getting a non-guaranteed future start date with mainline in a few years time?
That’s not what I was alluding to. In fact; I have no idea why you thought that was relevant to my quote.

Bobyyy1 explained the differences succinctly.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 23:45
  #728 (permalink)  
 
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The ATR is a prison.
The seniority system is meaningless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly not on the ATR list and is ignorant of what's happened the past 8 years.

The only solution to the ATR problem is a letter of resignation.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 01:16
  #729 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely correct shoddy.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 02:09
  #730 (permalink)  
 
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The only solution to the ATR problem is a letter of resignation.
Fantastic idea. And back to being a Grade 3 instructor at one of the several Chinese owned flying schools springing up around Australia
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 04:40
  #731 (permalink)  
 
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Arrow

Originally Posted by Judd
Fantastic idea. And back to being a Grade 3 instructor at one of the several Chinese owned flying schools springing up around Australia
Judd - Why would they have to resort to instructing with all that experience? You don't work in HR do you?
From my experience I can say with confidence that the majority of these guys would get a job in Asia tomorrow flying a 320 or wide body as a First Officer. Saying that of course they would also be more than suitable for any major airline jet job in Oz.
L.B

Last edited by "Littlebird"; 19th Jul 2018 at 09:08.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 12:43
  #732 (permalink)  
 
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So how does one actually get off the ATR and onto the 800? Is it a matter of slogging it out for 5-10 years as a FO then another 5-10 with a command before moving across? You probably would be at retirement age before the days comes along getting a shot at a 737 command
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 23:54
  #733 (permalink)  
 
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All this talk about 5-10 years on the ATR is nonsense in my opinion.

There is currently some sort of cap on people moving from the ATR and while I can sort of understand it from a business perspective - though I think it is misguided and not real smart, but I can sort of understand it (note I didn't say I agree with it!)

The ATR EBA is currently being negotiated so it seems to me that it is an area ripe for negotiation.

The organisation does not benefit from having a heap of pissed off ATR pilots who bail out and go to QF or elsewhere, (despite what some of our betters might think) so it makes perfect business sense to me to work out a mutually satisfactory arrangement. Which is probably why it won't happen
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 05:10
  #734 (permalink)  
 
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Currently an ad out for DECís on the ATR
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 05:57
  #735 (permalink)  
 
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Any idea of realistically how many hours theyíre looking for DEC?

Will a Saab340 left seat suffice?

Iím just looking for a regional ACT lifestyle now, not interested in jets etc so please donít bother with trying to put me off with that argument etc.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 13:02
  #736 (permalink)  
 
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Roundhouse

I reckon that’d do it....if you know anyone on the inside get them to make a few enquiries, if not chase them up yourself.


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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:49
  #737 (permalink)  
 
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Realistically over the next year if you are trying for the 737 then VAINZ is probably your best bet. Whilst there are spots available in Australia many of those will be filled internally, (VAINZ,VARA,ATR, and now Tiger have joined the GDOJ list) leaving a lucky few or any spots for direct entry being based in Aus. As many have mentioned above, get your seniority number, do the three years in NZ and then bid for a position in Australia.
Treat it as adventure. NZ is a great place to live and if you are east coast based, commuting may be a viable option.
Good luck out there to all.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 04:22
  #738 (permalink)  
 
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What would the approximate time to command be in NZ? Do many Australians bid for New Zealand commands?
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 06:31
  #739 (permalink)  
 
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About 5-7 years. They are starting to as protected list of old Pb nz foís for command priority Is about to be exhausted.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 01:00
  #740 (permalink)  
 
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Guess how many widebody jobs VA is forecasting for the 12 months Jul 2018 to Jul 2019?
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