Virgin Australia recruitment
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My understanding is that if you are 'frozen' due training bond the you don't have a dog in the race and someone junior to you can and will trump you. This applies to all pilots.
In 2010, GFC displaced pilots on the Ejet had new hires come in directly onto the 737. That was a different EBA and era. Within 6-12 months I think most ended up back on the 737 if they wished to go to it.
I don't think there is much point in an us and them type thread as it's not reality on the line, were all the same.
I suspect most ATR pilots will indeed get their chance at the 73. Tiger and VANZ are losing pilots and most VAA guys aren't interested so you might find yourself in a good position sooner than you might think.
Having said that, you have to wonder why the ATR is being kept given all the issues and for such a small fleet.
All the best.
In 2010, GFC displaced pilots on the Ejet had new hires come in directly onto the 737. That was a different EBA and era. Within 6-12 months I think most ended up back on the 737 if they wished to go to it.
I don't think there is much point in an us and them type thread as it's not reality on the line, were all the same.
I suspect most ATR pilots will indeed get their chance at the 73. Tiger and VANZ are losing pilots and most VAA guys aren't interested so you might find yourself in a good position sooner than you might think.
Having said that, you have to wonder why the ATR is being kept given all the issues and for such a small fleet.
All the best.
Psychometric Testing
Can anyone shed any light on the psychometric testing that Virgin uses these days and if there are any practice materials you recommend?
Feel free to PM me.
Feel free to PM me.
206greaser
Last time I checked the VARA EBA there was something in there about no requirement to release more than 10% of pilots to the mainline operation per year. Assuming this is to prevent crippling the ATR operation. Perhaps this is being applied or needs to be applied in this instance. Any remaining vacancies to be offered to more junior pilots and externals. Is this not complying fully with the EBA?
Last time I checked the VARA EBA there was something in there about no requirement to release more than 10% of pilots to the mainline operation per year. Assuming this is to prevent crippling the ATR operation. Perhaps this is being applied or needs to be applied in this instance. Any remaining vacancies to be offered to more junior pilots and externals. Is this not complying fully with the EBA?
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Yeah that's right Skysook I've read that too. It's my understanding that management said they'd not apply the cap due to a significant need for crew on other fleets. it makes no sense to apply a cap and keep crew on a fleet that is more than halved and then have to hire externally. I mean that's my thinking, but then I have nothing against ATR pilots...
Originally Posted by Seriously
Virgin will eventually go back to being the pilots job of choice. It's better than having to wear a white hat...
I know what color hat I'd rather be wearing.
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher
😂 Really?! It's a hat dude. Had a look at the share prices / balance sheets / future prospects recently?
I know what color hat I'd rather be wearing.
I know what color hat I'd rather be wearing.
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Originally Posted by mikewil
Can anyone shed any light on the psychometric testing that Virgin uses these days and if there are any practice materials you recommend?
Feel free to PM me.
Feel free to PM me.
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Why is it bad to go out side seniority
Seniority system is the glue that holds an airline together, it's the only reason pilots stick with a particular airline. Once you have it you seldom want to give it up. If Virgin wanna go outside the seniority list it's a very slippery slope especially when Virgin pilots are already looking elsewhere due to hugely expired EPAs !!
The biggest problem with Virgin are the unions.... or lack of !!
Seniority system is the glue that holds an airline together, it's the only reason pilots stick with a particular airline. Once you have it you seldom want to give it up. If Virgin wanna go outside the seniority list it's a very slippery slope especially when Virgin pilots are already looking elsewhere due to hugely expired EPAs !!
The biggest problem with Virgin are the unions.... or lack of !!
Aren't ATR and newish SOs type frozen? So if jobs came up now on B737 then they could not apply because of the type freeze, therefore not outside of seniority list bidding?
There seems to be a big focus on the seniority system and that positions should be allocated based strictly on GDOJ number. Don't forget 2 simple facts.
1. There is a 10% cap per year on the release of VARA pilots to the jet fleet. The company has full rights to apply this. This is in accordance with the VARA EBA.
2. There are many pilots on the list that are still type frozen. Therefore, they are ineligible to be awarded a position.
So for those that are complaining about more junior pilots or externals potentially being awarded positions ahead of you. I suggest you revisit these 2 simple facts.
1. There is a 10% cap per year on the release of VARA pilots to the jet fleet. The company has full rights to apply this. This is in accordance with the VARA EBA.
2. There are many pilots on the list that are still type frozen. Therefore, they are ineligible to be awarded a position.
So for those that are complaining about more junior pilots or externals potentially being awarded positions ahead of you. I suggest you revisit these 2 simple facts.
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Originally Posted by Interceptheading
Why is it bad to go out side seniority
Seniority system is the glue that holds an airline together, it's the only reason pilots stick with a particular airline. Once you have it you seldom want to give it up. If Virgin wanna go outside the seniority list it's a very slippery slope especially when Virgin pilots are already looking elsewhere due to hugely expired EPAs !!
The biggest problem with Virgin are the unions.... or lack of !!
Seniority system is the glue that holds an airline together, it's the only reason pilots stick with a particular airline. Once you have it you seldom want to give it up. If Virgin wanna go outside the seniority list it's a very slippery slope especially when Virgin pilots are already looking elsewhere due to hugely expired EPAs !!
The biggest problem with Virgin are the unions.... or lack of !!
I think Virgin Australia has much larger (business-centric) problems at present!
Virgin Australia has been known to relax the type freezes when there are no suitable internal candidates.
Seniority in Australia is also what keeps many very qualified and experienced pilots from around the world (ie. Australian expats) who could bring a lot to the system, from coming back to Australia into suitable roles (ie. Commands and Check and Training roles), all because if that very experienced pilot wants to come back to Australia, they are demoted to a First Officer (or Second Officer in Qantas' case!).
Seniority works to a point, but it's a system that's still not in the best interests of the company in terms of recruiting the best people for the job into the most appropriate roles.
Seniority works to a point, but it's a system that's still not in the best interests of the company in terms of recruiting the best people for the job into the most appropriate roles.
Originally Posted by morno
Seniority in Australia is also what keeps many very qualified and experienced pilots from around the world (ie. Australian expats) who could bring a lot to the system, from coming back to Australia into suitable roles (ie. Commands and Check and Training roles), all because if that very experienced pilot wants to come back to Australia, they are demoted to a First Officer (or Second Officer in Qantas' case!).
Seniority works to a point, but it's a system that's still not in the best interests of the company in terms of recruiting the best people for the job into the most appropriate roles.
Seniority works to a point, but it's a system that's still not in the best interests of the company in terms of recruiting the best people for the job into the most appropriate roles.
Why sit on the seniority list for 25+ years waiting for a widebody command when you could run off overseas for 10 and come back as a DEC?
Sure, abolishing seniority might afford them to hire DEC's out of the sandpit, but how much turnover would they have in the SO/FO ranks as Pilots flock overseas for some command time, sick of being overlooked in favor of returning expats?
Slippery slope in my opinion.
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skysook is correct.
The question beyond this issue is: how do you retain people on that type when the likes of QF are recruiting? I'm told turnover isn't as much of a problem as the pilots think it is. Having said that, experienced well trained crews I think are better than constant turnover. Cadets is one answer.
I'd say cashflow is the real "glue". Watch how quickly things come "unstuck" without it..
The question beyond this issue is: how do you retain people on that type when the likes of QF are recruiting? I'm told turnover isn't as much of a problem as the pilots think it is. Having said that, experienced well trained crews I think are better than constant turnover. Cadets is one answer.
I'd say cashflow is the real "glue". Watch how quickly things come "unstuck" without it..
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The backstabbing, lies, brown nosing and greasy pole climbing that goes on at Virgin (and probably other places also) is bad enough with pseudo GDOJ system that is in place now......
Without it, the behaviour of those that think the rules apply to everyone else except them would be even more disgraceful.
Seniority is the best bad system.
Without it, the behaviour of those that think the rules apply to everyone else except them would be even more disgraceful.
Seniority is the best bad system.
Seniority works to a point, but it's a system that's still not in the best interests of the company
