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Qantas Recruitment

Old 6th Mar 2018, 23:21
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Another, somewhat FJ centric, take on it here:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/02/ai...ers-right-now/

This Phoenix plan is an interesting one. I wonder if $100k and preferential treatment is enough to make up for a seniority number a bit further down the list.

‘One non-traditional solution being panned is Phoenix Aviator. In lieu of a traditional bonus, pilots who agree to stay would be eligible for a $100,000 bonus upon separation. In return, they would receive an airline transport rating and the airlines would grant preferential treatment to military pilots who have served at least 15 years. The airlines are supportive.’

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Old 7th Mar 2018, 04:50
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Originally Posted by dr dre
You don’t need 250hrs command for an ATPL. You only need 70hrs command then the rest can be ICUS, which cadets in most airlines log when PF.
This is a very valid point. Nothing wrong with PICUS if it is done correctly with a system in place.

However the magenta line following generation merely think a PF sector qualifies as a PICUS sector. Management allow this as imagine the extra cost should real PICUS be required. How the CASAs of this world let them do it amazes me.

No not cadet bashing, just feel some real command time is needed and if not that like the ole 500 hours days then some real PICUS with real decision making. That means if the Capt has to assist or suggest well then that’s not PICUS is it?

Or am I being to harsh?
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 05:16
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^^^ maybe a bit harsh, I encourage my FO’s to feel free to assist or suggest if they think I am missing something, to me a PICUS sector is you allow the FO to carry out the normal P1duties such as the Cabin Crew Briefing, Techlog Review, Fuel Check / Decisions and any liaising with the Engineers..... all under my supervision of course and with appropiate guidance where necessary, otherwise how do they learn?
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 05:44
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Ollie,

I agree totally. My point being is that PICUS is logged from day 1 on a normal PF sector.

Done your way is what it should be. Why does a cadet need to be worrying about command or PICUS hours day 1? It’s not needed for at least 3 years. Even better have the airline set up a PICUS training path and program.

Or go get real command hours.

Apologies if my wording was misleading.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 05:45
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Global, I would think a few thousand hours PF for an Australian RPT operator satisfactorily meets the requirement to tick the ATPL box. Likewise counting up night hours and cross country hours is all a bit arbitrary - it just happens in the background. Having an ATPL doesn’t have much to do with getting a LHS position anyway.

Last edited by *Lancer*; 7th Mar 2018 at 08:08.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 07:56
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dr Dre- QF have a minimum 250 hrs PIC for the internal application ATPL not required, just exams completed.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 09:10
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
^^^ maybe a bit harsh, I encourage my FO’s to feel free to assist or suggest if they think I am missing something, to me a PICUS sector is you allow the FO to carry out the normal P1duties such as the Cabin Crew Briefing, Techlog Review, Fuel Check / Decisions and any liaising with the Engineers..... all under my supervision of course and with appropiate guidance where necessary, otherwise how do they learn?
They learn by showing initiative and being proactive. The young pilots might need to look up the definition, by doing so, they would be proactive.
ICUS is a training status, should be nothing more. Turning up to a job interview with 3,000hrs ICUS, is as relevant as having an 3,000hrs in your logbook.
There is a reason airline's specify PIC time when recruiting or upgrading. Otherwise,we should just give every CPL a Command straight out of flying school.

Picking up the Tech Log, consulting on fuel etc is part of everyday life. Appropriate supervision?? Who is to say what is appropriate? A less than reputable pilot in the left seat who shows a flagrant disregard for policy and procedures, but he is a good guy so we take his word as gospel on operational matters.

I came across a pilot the other day who thought he should be given a DEC at an airline becaue he met the requirements with his ICUS time?
F/O's are co-pilot's, not co-captains. It is not a commitee meeting. While during everyday, normal operations, every decision should be run by both pilots for input and contribution, when the Captain needs to make a decision, they should be free to make that decision without fear and hesitation of hurting the other pilot's feelings and offending his sensibilities.

If that is too harsh, then when I become a Captain, I would appreciate it if my airline changes it's policy and absolves me of any responsibilty in the event my First Officer makes an error or gets me involved in a violation.

Heavy wears the Crown,the position should be respected by those in it, and those aspiring to it.

(this post makes no reference to the calibre of pilot or training in any airline. just an opinion of the industry)

Last edited by IBE8720; 7th Mar 2018 at 09:25.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 09:31
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Otherwise,we should just give every CPL a Command straight out of flying school.
Err WE do give them a command. On a C172, C206, C210 C310 etc etc

That is exactly what a CPL is.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 11:01
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Err WE do give them a command. On a C172, C206, C210 C310 etc etc

That is exactly what a CPL is.
Seeing as we are discussing ICUS in an airline, obviously I was talking about an airline Command. But I suspect you knew that.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 11:55
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Well played with a straight bat sir.

Cannot disagree with your comments. The ICUS "program" at my place of employment is woefully inadequate, not structured or even understood by the supervising captains. Mainly due to lack of resources put into it.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 22:16
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Well, the ICUS “program” at my major airline seems to work just fine.
Amazing how a thread on Qantas recruitment attracts so many posters with zero knowledge of either Qantas or recruitment!
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 00:22
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Speaking of QF recruitment, I thought I read that QF had opened EOI for Flight Crew, but absolutely nothing on the jobs website.

Anyone got any info ?
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 00:36
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Internal Recruitment Window Reopened

Originally Posted by QldPilotGuy
Speaking of QF recruitment, I thought I read that QF had opened EOI for Flight Crew, but absolutely nothing on the jobs website.

Anyone got any info ?
Yes, QF Mainline Second Officer internal recruitment has begun again.

The window for QF group employees has reopened from March 6th to 19th. External recruitment is likely to begin again after that.

They have removed the HSC subjects or alternative Bachelor degree requirements.

I do (again) love the caring way that internals will only be given a start date (and therefore a seniority number) once they are ‘released’ from service to their current operation. (sarcasm)

Watch and weep again that externals will have a better career by virtue of a much higher seniority number.

PG
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 00:50
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Thanks PG, appreciate the update.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 01:39
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Originally Posted by Popgun
Yes, QF Mainline Second Officer internal recruitment has begun again.

The window for QF group employees has reopened from March 6th to 19th. External recruitment is likely to begin again after that.

They have removed the HSC subjects or alternative Bachelor degree requirements.

I do (again) love the caring way that internals will only be given a start date (and therefore a seniority number) once they are ‘released’ from service to their current operation. (sarcasm)

Watch and weep again that externals will have a better career by virtue of a much higher seniority number.

PG
Except of course for those lucky cadets years ago who were given seniority numbers by an X chief pilot even thou they were not employed by Qantas at the time.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 02:44
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Seems more legit allowing the pilot in the RHS logging PF time as ICUS as opposed to the whole crew logging all that time spent in the bunk.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 04:44
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher
Seems more legit allowing the pilot in the RHS logging PF time as ICUS as opposed to the whole crew logging all that time spent in the bunk.

I think you may have missed the point. If there’s any member of an airline crew that cares about “logging time”, it’s a scam. ICUS is a scam; invented by airline management to get unqualified pilots into a seat. It’s that simple.

The only “time” that a real airline crew cares about logging, is for the purposes of money or regulatory (duty/block etc.) time. If an airline is so desperate that the pilot sitting in the right seat isn’t fully qualified and licensed as a first officer, it’s a management scam. And it’s all about saving money. Not safety.

BTW - you should want the time in the bunk to be logged. For pay and duty. Ask an Emirates pilot why. Here’s a hint - it’s a scam.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 10:07
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Popgun

You said it!
Originally Posted by Popgun
QF Mainline Second Officer internal recruitment has begun again.
Not Q-link, not Jetconnect, not Jetstar, not Sunstate, not Eastern etc, but QF Mainline Second Officer internal recruitment has begun again.

While the recruitment processes may be similar, &/or driven by the same ‘group’ HR machine, ‘internal’ applicants are extended the courtesy of priority ‘mainline’ processing at the start. Those ‘internals’ accepted into QF Mainline are often given far more notice of a start date than others, and their seniority begins when they start on a new/different seniority list. (I too can confirm that it hasn’t always been that way.)

What makes you think that there are not eminently suitable candidates from outside the group also deserving of a seniority number on a list in whatever order the ‘owners’ decide? When they too start sounds eminently fair to me!😉

Perhaps some want to be able to have their cake and eat it too? I had no idea that starting a career in Dash 8s, 717s, A320s etc was so much worse than GA on night freight, teaching foreign & Aussie cadets at Moorabin/Jandakot etc, the Kimberleys, PNG, RAAF, ......🤔🙄

Last edited by Jetsbest; 8th Mar 2018 at 10:18.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 13:03
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
Littlebird,

OK...ya just can't just leave that hangin' with no more details.

I'd be VERY surprised the USAF would take foreign nationals into the service for a mere 5 year commitment, if at all...national security and so forth.

If anything, with the current tour for US citizens at 10 years after getting their wings (the reserves and national guard would be shorter), the commitment for US citizens needs to be shortened to attract more aspirants.

Is your friend actually in contact and working with USAF brass or just hatching a plan yet to be presented, without a response from the USAF ?
Yes, they are currently on exchange with the US Dept of Defense and have been working on this project as a priority for the past 6 months. It has been on the agenda for years and always put on the back burner although it can't wait anymore.

I am not across as to what will transpire for the US citizens.
L.B
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 13:55
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Originally Posted by "Littlebird"
Yes, they are currently on exchange with the US Dept of Defense and have been working on this project as a priority for the past 6 months. It has been on the agenda for years and always put on the back burner although it can't wait anymore.
LB,

Thanks for the info.

No timeline yet for revealing this plan to the industry ? "... guaranteed placement with one of the majors." is a pretty strong statement so one would assume at least one US "major" would have to have been involved from the start.

It's known that the USAF and airlines have been chatting for quite a while about "sharing" pilots but to my knowledge, no definitive plan has been reached...and everything that's been said didn't admit to involving foreign nationals.

I wouldn't expect the "experienced" foreign nationals would be available in sufficient numbers to turn the tide to either the benefit of the USAF or an airline.

Can't wait to see this one hit the fan.

Last edited by bafanguy; 8th Mar 2018 at 14:34.
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