Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas non-stop PER to LHR?

Old 3rd Dec 2016, 23:51
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Fatguy,

I apologise for seemingly repeating my comments. It is an area that I posses substantial experience and I see organised labour falling for the same three card trick.

The original thread regarding Perth London was my focus and the spin associated with a thought bubble. IATA meetings are interesting places, the conferences well worth a listen in. As with most things Australia lags Europe and the USA, so you can bet something seen in Australia was already tried elsewhere.

In the absence of facts, Qantas assertions regarding aircraft, routes and even promotion contain considerable hyperbole and it is not suprising that pilots respond the way they do with strong feelings of optimism.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 00:06
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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At risk of getting wildly off topic Tuck Mach....have you ever been involved in a Union or negotiations? Its one thing to spout about great tactics and other countries industrial relations but unless you have been sat in that room directly acoss from them you have no idea on the complexities of EBA negotiating in this country.

In saying that I do agree with half of your points on various threads.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 00:07
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry but I don't seem to recall making any comments about the President.
The president wasn't on the negotiating team. Understand this is protocol.
I'm well aware of the vast said achievements via AIPA insights. Thanks for the reminder though.

Keg
If you re read my post I am in total agreement.
When you factor in 747 retirements and possibly a few A330s then I don't see a great expansion in TOTAL hull numbers.
Company statements to the ASX and meetings with COO and CFO confirm this.
Happy to stand corrected if there is a statement to staff or the ASX I may be unaware of.
As you said earlier it is good to see QF international not shrinking. The GROWTH numbers that some claim however are not realistic.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 00:10
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Mach,

You have been quite critical of the performance of AIPA and the negotiation of the last EBA. You also state that you have 'substantial experience' in this area. Do you care to explain what that experience might be?

It is easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise on a semi-anonymous forum such as this. Have you put your hand up to be on the committee of management of AIPA? You have a much better chance of affecting change that way than posting here. If you are (or have been) on the committee of management, did you make your concerns known at the time?

My understanding of the last long haul EBA is that the claims were drafted based on the results of a member survey. The outcome was crew going to the 787 will get paid slightly more than current A330 crew with a superannuation salary calculation significantly higher than the A330. The 787-9 is about the same size as an A330-300. A330 crew are bidding to go to it. 82% of members supported the deal. I am having difficulty seeing how AIPA or the members were duped with this agreement.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 00:58
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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No way!!!

As totally a passenger these days and luckily one who gets quite a few long haul flights I can only say that there is NO WAY in the world that I would sit in a flight of 19hrs even in J class. Having done quite a few 13+ hr flights I find that well and truly long enough so if QF or any others are considering these ultra long haul flights then they can go and well and truly stuff them up their ar**.
A couple of hours break in between breathing nice fresh sea level air and perhaps a shower does wonders for the next sector.
I would not do around 19+ hrs flights even if it were almost free!!!!
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 01:10
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Plenty of people are happy enough to do the 16 hours 50 minutes Dallas to Sydney everyday and I'd think plenty would also be jut as happy to do the 40 or so minutes longer Perth to London... especially if not in Y.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 01:25
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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RodH

Well maybe some of us don't give a s... what you like or dislike! I am doing one of these awful flights(Doha to Auckland) in Feb'17 and looking forward to it very much,cheers,
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 02:18
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Tuck Mach,
If you haven't realised, the days of racking up double time for extra hours in the bunk, of SO's pulling in over 200k are over then please join the 21st century.
82% realised those days are over, they're more than happy with the conditions (some of the best in the world and in a desirable country too).
There may be some short term shortages of crew at the moment but in the long term no one will have an issue getting pilots. JQ has already restarted the cadetship and their aren't many trainee or GA pilots who will say no to the proposed 787 SO package. Most now are willing to put the turmoils of the last decade behind and look to the future, if it involves or 8 aircraft or more.

Last edited by dr dre; 4th Dec 2016 at 02:35.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 02:30
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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What a stupid simplistic statement to say Long Haul flying is all just bunk sleep racking up double time.
Very long duty times/jet lag/circadian disruption/night flying/extended wakefulness/days away from family.
No wonder pilots collectively do so poorly when we make such stupid statements publicly.
Sad that some people have the mentality that they would rather see everyone get less or go without, Rather than improve things for themselves down the track.
So childish, impatient and foolish yet predictable.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 02:35
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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You're not fooling anybody KnobbyMach

Again, it's time to move on. We all have, sorry you can't. See ya!
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 04:51
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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This thread commenced talking about Perth London. Qantas 'may' do more in the future. Perth airport called them on the vague assertions and challenged it. All part of the negotiation and media commentary becomes accepted fact, but Qantas may struggle to expand the route and hoping Frankfurt et al happens is not factual. Commercial negotiations come in and sort the issues... Sadly they broke down, wonder why?

Qantas has not changed, the same games will be played with all staff. Unions fall for the same tricks! IR practitioners rely on it. The internet offers so many resources for the curious to investigate and validate, but most do not do that, here is no exception.

The deal endorsed by 82% is the first deal in so many years that in the 'hurry',at Qantas' insistence diligence was neglected. It may be a desirable 'deal' in the absence of any comparative research, given there has been a 'lost decade at Qantas' it is understandable. Ever wonder what the hurry was? I hope the 82% are right.

I have no dog in the fight anymore, I was merely trying to show that facts may differ from one's view of events and history tends to teach similar lessons to successive generations. I am of the view that any management in the modern corporate cannot be trusted until their actions meet their words. Until then trust but verify

Should you wish to check there are various sources of data to constructively validate your 'desirability' for the given contract. By all means tell me I don't know what I am talking about, but please just do some cursory research.

IATA
ICAO
Avmark
IMF (even have aviation statistics)


As for me, it is of no concern either way. My professional background is different to many here and as it is an anonymous forum I shall keep it that way.

I hope for all pilots at Qantas that there are, other than vague assurances of more aircraft, REAL growth to follow. You might want to look at the gearing ratios though to see how likely they are to acquire further assets. I think 8 is about right, given the balance sheet at present.

I sincerely hope a career path long denied emerges.

Assurances from your management that more will follow, do not given their track record (there's history again) fill me as an investor with any solace.

Good luck to all..
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 23:38
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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It's all gone pretty quiet on the news front. I hope that means there is still a good chance of a deal being struck.

It would be interesting to learn the costs to the business of operating connecting flights out of a foreign country as apposed to operating from your own. In the future QF may not need to connect anywhere on foreign soil. I think that is a goal worth pursuing.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 22:54
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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ericsson16

If you feel that some of us don't give a s##t what I Like or dislike aren't you being rather hypocritical by telling us what you like and are looking forward to!!!!!!
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Old 9th Dec 2016, 06:51
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Darwin airport is interested if Perth won't budge.
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Old 9th Dec 2016, 22:15
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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The West Australian, 10 December 2016:

Non-stop flights to London get wings
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 04:11
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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There you have it. It's official from March 2018.
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 04:42
  #197 (permalink)  
Keg

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This is the burst

Today Iím really proud to announce Qantas will fly non-stop from Perth to London using our B787-9 Dreamliner from March 2018.

Itís another addition to our list of aviation firsts in our long history.

When we created the Kangaroo Route to London in 1947, it took four days and nine stops. Now it will take just 17 hours from Perth non-stop.

This is a game-changing route flown by a game-changing aircraft. Australians have never had a direct link to Europe before, so the opportunities this opens up are huge.

Itís great news for our people because itís a symbol of the new era weíre entering, and the new opportunities that brings.

Itís great news for travellers because it will make it easier to get to London. And itís great news for Australia because it will encourage more tourism.

The new flight will operate through our existing domestic terminals (T3/4), which will be upgraded to handle international flights. Our current Perth international services (to Singapore and Auckland) will also move to this terminal, and that will simplify the journey for thousands of our customers.

Weíll be looking at the timing of our domestic flights through Perth to offer better connections to our international flights, particularly given they will all be under the one roof.

Weíre currently working through how the crewing and maintenance of the B787-9 will work, and pilot training is already underway.

Thank you to the many people across Qantas who worked hard to make this route a reality. Iíd also like to acknowledge the support of the West Australian Government and Perth Airport.

Seats on our Perth-London flights will go on sale in April 2017 for the first services in March 2018.
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 06:36
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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There is talk that it will run with a Melbourne tag on, operating MEL-PER-LHR-PER-MEL any idea if there is truth to this?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 08:58
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Where's Tuck Mach?

Perhaps he/she is frantically updating their bids for a 787 Perth basing?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 09:02
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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I'm in - ex ADL that is ! Get in the queue you lot.
And I suspect a lot of QF FF members will be joining me - Good bit of forward thinking QF.
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