TigerAir debacle
You seem to be missing the facts here...
They can fly any pax that originate in Australia, and return in one booking
They cannot fly pax that are one way DPS-AU or DPS-AU-DPS. 99% of traffic on these Bali flights are Australian originating traffic and return journey. Those 1% folks have been moved to Virgin.
They can fly any pax that originate in Australia, and return in one booking
They cannot fly pax that are one way DPS-AU or DPS-AU-DPS. 99% of traffic on these Bali flights are Australian originating traffic and return journey. Those 1% folks have been moved to Virgin.
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Inter company stuff, reading from the QF/JQ songsheet VB to offload "tourist" destination to tiger but 320 not up to the task legs wise, tiger can't operate 73 until on their AOC, announced will happen but slowly - guesstimate over next 12 months +/-.
Until 73 on tiger AOC flights are charter, not RPT, and not International, and not International RPT etc etc; different catagories, different requirements.
Problem(s) not anticipated/forseen by outgoing or receiving departments of either entity (rules and regs, laws and other crap....whatever the responsible divisions are labelled these days) or so the story goes.
Poor internal management - sure would NEVER, EVER happen in QF/JQ!!
Until 73 on tiger AOC flights are charter, not RPT, and not International, and not International RPT etc etc; different catagories, different requirements.
Problem(s) not anticipated/forseen by outgoing or receiving departments of either entity (rules and regs, laws and other crap....whatever the responsible divisions are labelled these days) or so the story goes.
Poor internal management - sure would NEVER, EVER happen in QF/JQ!!
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Have to agree with RA Alive.
Airlines frequently sell subject to government approval. They need the sales lead time to fill the seats and generate cash flow. OZ - DPS is not a quick sell market when compared to SYD-MEL. Once you have your part 129 approval, slots, approval under the ASA etc, you have to use it straight away. Indo in particular, has a use it or lose it policy.
The commencement of the northern summer schedule was the target date for the TT/VA switch. Something was overlooked, or project deadline wasn't met. It happens and I am sure they will learn a hard lesson from it.
Anyway, JQ have been wet leasing 3K between Aus and Indo for years. It is nothing new.
Airlines frequently sell subject to government approval. They need the sales lead time to fill the seats and generate cash flow. OZ - DPS is not a quick sell market when compared to SYD-MEL. Once you have your part 129 approval, slots, approval under the ASA etc, you have to use it straight away. Indo in particular, has a use it or lose it policy.
The commencement of the northern summer schedule was the target date for the TT/VA switch. Something was overlooked, or project deadline wasn't met. It happens and I am sure they will learn a hard lesson from it.
Anyway, JQ have been wet leasing 3K between Aus and Indo for years. It is nothing new.
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Yes porch. I see all of that and every ticket I manually have to construct has a place in the mask to indicate that it could be subject to Government approval and if it is it our responsibility to indicate so. And yes, we do actually issue our own tickets and not via a middleman and we carry 110 separate plates for individual carriers. Rare that - about 3% of Agencies self issue.
Do a search on DPS as a point of origin in the TT website and you will find there is no available destination but yet they are willing to take Australian punters bucks with a disclaimer that means nothing to them as they are unaware there is a problem with the return.
They may be chartering airframes to do the return but basically have 2 empty aeroplanes belting around to cover each flight. Obviously Management Trainees have infiltrated the system.
So, they can't sell fares ex DPS so they don't market that but are happy to sell return fares ex Australia with no way of knowing if they can provide return transport on their own aeroplane? Yeah - right. Passengers have had to cop big delays and come back over Perth to get to the East Coast. Now they are chartering but weren't then.
Irresponsible and amateur. You may be a fan of TT but any Agent that recommends them or doesn't warn people off is an idiot or works for Blight Centre.
GA is 1st choice for us, JQ second and beyond that SQ or MH on via services.
Never TT - anywhere. This is an illustration of why.
I totally understand why a massive waste of money was alluded to.
It is one.
Best regards
EWL
Do a search on DPS as a point of origin in the TT website and you will find there is no available destination but yet they are willing to take Australian punters bucks with a disclaimer that means nothing to them as they are unaware there is a problem with the return.
They may be chartering airframes to do the return but basically have 2 empty aeroplanes belting around to cover each flight. Obviously Management Trainees have infiltrated the system.
So, they can't sell fares ex DPS so they don't market that but are happy to sell return fares ex Australia with no way of knowing if they can provide return transport on their own aeroplane? Yeah - right. Passengers have had to cop big delays and come back over Perth to get to the East Coast. Now they are chartering but weren't then.
Irresponsible and amateur. You may be a fan of TT but any Agent that recommends them or doesn't warn people off is an idiot or works for Blight Centre.
GA is 1st choice for us, JQ second and beyond that SQ or MH on via services.
Never TT - anywhere. This is an illustration of why.
I totally understand why a massive waste of money was alluded to.
It is one.
Best regards
EWL
EWL
You are missing the point. As so is everyone else.
They can sell AU-DPS-AU return. There is no issue bringing back the punters as long as it's a return journey from Australia. They can sell one way to Bali also.
There are no more empty aircraft. The only aircraft that were empty were 3 on Day 1 as they got the pax to Bali, but considering they can only take Australian originating return journeys, they obviously have no punters for the first legs back.
Hardly a major issue, how many pax actually originate in Bali? It's less than 5%.
You are missing the point. As so is everyone else.
They can sell AU-DPS-AU return. There is no issue bringing back the punters as long as it's a return journey from Australia. They can sell one way to Bali also.
There are no more empty aircraft. The only aircraft that were empty were 3 on Day 1 as they got the pax to Bali, but considering they can only take Australian originating return journeys, they obviously have no punters for the first legs back.
Hardly a major issue, how many pax actually originate in Bali? It's less than 5%.
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Accepted PJ and apologies to all for my misinterpretation.
Funnily enough about 40% of my DPS traffic originates in Indonesia on the way to the Marshall Islands and are Indo seamen. Most transit DPS on way to NAN and then onto Nauru Air to Majuro. Interesting logistically as you can't have them on the ground in OZ over 8 hours and can't transit US ports which rules out Guam, Kwajalein and a few others.
As they often originate Padang, Gunung Sitoli, Medan and Jakarta as well as a bunch of other ports, Garuda or MH are generally the only choices as SQ doesn't recognise a non GDS airline as valid oncarriage and won't board them.
It will however be interesting to see how they go once they get all their cack together and what yield they get off the service.
Best regards
EWL
Funnily enough about 40% of my DPS traffic originates in Indonesia on the way to the Marshall Islands and are Indo seamen. Most transit DPS on way to NAN and then onto Nauru Air to Majuro. Interesting logistically as you can't have them on the ground in OZ over 8 hours and can't transit US ports which rules out Guam, Kwajalein and a few others.
As they often originate Padang, Gunung Sitoli, Medan and Jakarta as well as a bunch of other ports, Garuda or MH are generally the only choices as SQ doesn't recognise a non GDS airline as valid oncarriage and won't board them.
It will however be interesting to see how they go once they get all their cack together and what yield they get off the service.
Best regards
EWL
GA is 1st choice for us
Take a look at the stats from the government, you're more likely to arrive and arrive on time flying Tigerair than you are JQ.
morno
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No Leffe
Coupons must be used in order or the e ticket is ruled invalid in this case where traffic rights do not or did not exist. If the traffic rights existed at the time of the outbound booking the outward flight would be forfeited and the return could be utilised.
morno
You must be thinking of the Garuda of 30 years ago.
They were "interesting" back then but now they are listed as 5 star and perform like it. We move a lot of people into regional Indo and operationally and with regard to schedule they are excellent.
One can't disguise the fact that this has been a major faux pas though can they?
Best all
EWL
Coupons must be used in order or the e ticket is ruled invalid in this case where traffic rights do not or did not exist. If the traffic rights existed at the time of the outbound booking the outward flight would be forfeited and the return could be utilised.
morno
You must be thinking of the Garuda of 30 years ago.
They were "interesting" back then but now they are listed as 5 star and perform like it. We move a lot of people into regional Indo and operationally and with regard to schedule they are excellent.
One can't disguise the fact that this has been a major faux pas though can they?
Best all
EWL
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Hey Eastwest Loco,
I appreciate the response....I contacted tiger air directly and they have no problem with cancelling the Melbourne-Denpasar and only using the Denpasar-Melbourne sector, of course no refund which I don't care about, as long as you have a booking ref number it's all ok....cheers
FYI only
I appreciate the response....I contacted tiger air directly and they have no problem with cancelling the Melbourne-Denpasar and only using the Denpasar-Melbourne sector, of course no refund which I don't care about, as long as you have a booking ref number it's all ok....cheers
FYI only
No Leffe
Coupons must be used in order or the e ticket is ruled invalid in this case where traffic rights do not or did not exist. If the traffic rights existed at the time of the outbound booking the outward flight would be forfeited and the return could be utilised.
morno
You must be thinking of the Garuda of 30 years ago.
They were "interesting" back then but now they are listed as 5 star and perform like it. We move a lot of people into regional Indo and operationally and with regard to schedule they are excellent.
One can't disguise the fact that this has been a major faux pas though can they?
Best all
EWL
Coupons must be used in order or the e ticket is ruled invalid in this case where traffic rights do not or did not exist. If the traffic rights existed at the time of the outbound booking the outward flight would be forfeited and the return could be utilised.
morno
You must be thinking of the Garuda of 30 years ago.
They were "interesting" back then but now they are listed as 5 star and perform like it. We move a lot of people into regional Indo and operationally and with regard to schedule they are excellent.
One can't disguise the fact that this has been a major faux pas though can they?
Best all
EWL
"crossed the threshold 87kts fast"
yes clearly A grade operators.
i guess only 21 people died. thats 21 people not around their loved ones anymore. but hey, the sevice is pretty good. theyre sort of on time.
Ive personally witnesed them fly straight through thunderstorms on final. and not just one.
They are better than Lion Air though........probably.
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Not a fan porch. Any airline that causes work for no return which they have in the past is consigned to the backburner and yes, it is selfish and based on past opinions just as morno has past opinion. All to a degree valid. Maybe not nice, but that's the way it is.
leffe - you have done well. The airline is in contravention of the currnt terms of uplift and it would make me worried, but if they are willing to wear it then good thing! It becomes their problem. I am impressed that the res centre had the balls to actually make a decision! Very unusual is any res room these days.
chook - yep the Jogjag accident was bad and years ago. I believe the cockpit culture has been severely addressed due to that hull and life loss. I would still much rather fly GA internal than Lion, Merpati or God forbid Batavia.
Best al
EWLl
leffe - you have done well. The airline is in contravention of the currnt terms of uplift and it would make me worried, but if they are willing to wear it then good thing! It becomes their problem. I am impressed that the res centre had the balls to actually make a decision! Very unusual is any res room these days.
chook - yep the Jogjag accident was bad and years ago. I believe the cockpit culture has been severely addressed due to that hull and life loss. I would still much rather fly GA internal than Lion, Merpati or God forbid Batavia.
Best al
EWLl
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EWL, I still vividly recall you having an issue with JQ too when they first kicked-off operations back in '04-'05. That was 'the past' but you gladly accept their cash now. Why the attitude with Tigerair?
They clearly don't need agents to fill sufficient seats at the moment.
As I've said before, travel agents exist for the ignorant and the computer-illiterate. There is such a vast amount of guiding information on the net that is designed to help the inexperienced traveller that it is inevitable that agents will disappear from mainstream and instead become a niche industry.
In the meantime, don't slag an airline because they won't help fund your retirement; that's entirely their choice.
I'd be far more careful about singing the praises of an airline that has had a very checkered safety history and has killed Australian travellers. Did you help with any of their bookings? How would you feel if you had? New aircraft, a new service and flash new paint don't a safe airline make.
A pig with lipstick is still a pig.
They clearly don't need agents to fill sufficient seats at the moment.
As I've said before, travel agents exist for the ignorant and the computer-illiterate. There is such a vast amount of guiding information on the net that is designed to help the inexperienced traveller that it is inevitable that agents will disappear from mainstream and instead become a niche industry.
In the meantime, don't slag an airline because they won't help fund your retirement; that's entirely their choice.
I'd be far more careful about singing the praises of an airline that has had a very checkered safety history and has killed Australian travellers. Did you help with any of their bookings? How would you feel if you had? New aircraft, a new service and flash new paint don't a safe airline make.
A pig with lipstick is still a pig.
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Eastwest loco
You mention Merpati Airlines and Batavia, both those airlines are bankrupt and have been for several years, as a travel agent or whatever you say you are once again your facts are incorrect....just saying
You mention Merpati Airlines and Batavia, both those airlines are bankrupt and have been for several years, as a travel agent or whatever you say you are once again your facts are incorrect....just saying
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No porch. I was not having a go at you and was agreeing that I am not a fan.
As for TT every booking we have made every one has gone pear shaped. That was the early ones and I have had a few Corporates of late that had to use them and it went ok. I remain nervous of the late night call though. Naturally there is an aversion factor.
RAD - we add a service fee to TT and with JQ a service fee is built in through the Agent website. One will never retire on JQ but it is done as a service. They are behaving much more like a proper airline these days when something goes pear shaped and seem to have solved most of their website problems and the call centre in MNL actually makes sense. I did have a an issue with JQ. They have improved but like any airline aren't totally perfect. It makes no difference to them whether I sell them or not, nor does it to tiger.
Also when I as at TN WNY we had the wife of the Port of Burnie Authority CEO onboard a certain NZ DC10 that didn't quite make the round trip intended. I know how it feels mate and since their last hull and life loss GA has become a totally different airline.
leffe
Merpati and Batavia are gone and I do know this. So is Adam Air but there are a bunch of others such as Expressair belting around. We used to have to use SMAC between North Sumatera and Gunungsitoli on Nias Island for surf contests. Now they were scary and lost a minimum of one airframe and associated lives every wet season.
EWL
As for TT every booking we have made every one has gone pear shaped. That was the early ones and I have had a few Corporates of late that had to use them and it went ok. I remain nervous of the late night call though. Naturally there is an aversion factor.
RAD - we add a service fee to TT and with JQ a service fee is built in through the Agent website. One will never retire on JQ but it is done as a service. They are behaving much more like a proper airline these days when something goes pear shaped and seem to have solved most of their website problems and the call centre in MNL actually makes sense. I did have a an issue with JQ. They have improved but like any airline aren't totally perfect. It makes no difference to them whether I sell them or not, nor does it to tiger.
Also when I as at TN WNY we had the wife of the Port of Burnie Authority CEO onboard a certain NZ DC10 that didn't quite make the round trip intended. I know how it feels mate and since their last hull and life loss GA has become a totally different airline.
leffe
Merpati and Batavia are gone and I do know this. So is Adam Air but there are a bunch of others such as Expressair belting around. We used to have to use SMAC between North Sumatera and Gunungsitoli on Nias Island for surf contests. Now they were scary and lost a minimum of one airframe and associated lives every wet season.
EWL
EWL, every time GA have lost an airframe it promised to be a different airline. Better seats and free booze appeal to Bali travellers but are no indication of an airline's safety.
I say this as a friend of several (now ex) GA 737 drivers.
But I strongly suspect they're the safest in Indonesia. I firmly believe the current TT/VA debacle to be a safer operation. And I have some first hand knowledge.
I say this as a friend of several (now ex) GA 737 drivers.
But I strongly suspect they're the safest in Indonesia. I firmly believe the current TT/VA debacle to be a safer operation. And I have some first hand knowledge.
Sorry for the thread drift but that reminded me of a line I read on Prune years ago by someone suggesting Merpati's advertising jingle should be:
"It's Merpati and I'll die if I want to".
"It's Merpati and I'll die if I want to".