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300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???

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300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???

Old 10th Jun 2014, 05:07
  #621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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ENT,

Have a re-read of what Master Caution and OnceBitten have written. They sum up pretty well (indirectly) why Jetstar exists, and won't be removed from the equation.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 05:20
  #622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Thanks guys - I do understand the purpose of J*, but isn't there eventually a point where you're cutting off your nose to spite your face?

It was pegged a long time ago the plan was to push everyone into a 'lesser' EBA and eventually flag them back to mainline on these 'new' EBA's.

But isn't it obviously not working?
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 05:40
  #623 (permalink)  
 
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It's obvious to everyone except those with their hands on the rudder, if there's a rudder even left.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 05:45
  #624 (permalink)  
 
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ENT.

If and its a big if, QF back peddle on the JQ brand. It won't be AJ that pulls that string. It will be a new CEO of the QF group. AJ will never admit the financial strain & drain on the QF group purse.

There have been constant retreats around the JQ network. The attention just hasn't been brought upon their failures. Open a Hobart & Darwin base. Only to close it a short time later. The failures are masked with announcements such as a new Adelaide base. Much like the recent announcement to operate Perth - Lombok. Only to cancel that route a short time later.

JQ has pulled out of the Brisbane - Perth route cause they can't make money on one of the most lucrative transcontinental services there is.

They can't compete against QF & Virgin and make a buck on that city pair.

By years end, the route will be serviced by those expensive LH pilots on that outdated award. Flying refurbished A330's returned from JQ international.

Passengers would have been given the option of a QF widebody A330 full service product. The virgin offering, or 5 hours in a cramped A320 full of bogans.

Since the 27th February announcements, there's already been a distinct change to the groups focus. JQ Asia growth halted, JQ Hong Kong 3 aircraft sold, B787 delivery for JQ delayed. JQ domestic & international route cancellations as mentioned above.

What your about to see is a depleted QF purse rationalising its services. The luxury of offering the one airline two brands on a route like Perth-Brisbane is gone. The Qf group can't afford those luxuries. And when it comes to consumers given the choice of travelling on QF or JQ. You won't find any of the premium QF passengers selecting JQ.

Anyone want to fly to Hamilton Island, QF are returning to that port. What's happened to date is passengers have chosen Virgin over JQ and the revenue was lost forever. It's only taken the likes of LS 10 plus years to realise JQ aren't a suitable alternative for QF on some of the groups services.

How do I know this? LC told me in passing. He said they know that no QF premium passenger will fly JQ over QF.

The evidence of this is the Brisbane-Perth route. JQ gone.

A domestic merger of JQ / QF will never happen. if any pilot thinks they'll be able to migrate easily to another entity their plain wrong. Let alone one entity with a common seniority list. Won't happen. Ever.

Just imagine a 18 year service QF FO sitting next to a captain in a red tailed aircraft with less than 10 years service. That's why it won't happen. You can't have two people operating an aircraft that don't talk to each other.

Let's look at QF pilots transferring by the MOU to JQ. They had to meet the recipient airlines selection criteria. Let's just say, the same will be applied in reverse. Yes. There's the opportunity for some senior types in JQ to utilise the MOU. However, any other merger will be as follows. You may apply, go thru the selection process and join the bottom of the QF seniority list.

In my opinion. QF are still the main game. JQ was born to compete with and contain the growth of low cost carriers in Australia. They will succeed or fail with that agenda in mind.

You need only look at the current QF mainline RIN. QF are going to spend millions redeploying pilots to other aircraft types after the retirement of the 767 & 744. Yes, it's a bummer on pilots career progression. But the offer of VR & reduced divisors will hopefully avoid the need for any CR's.

If the plan was to kill off QF mainline, wouldn't you think AJ would be barging into FWA right now. Claiming undue financial pressure on the airline & pushing for redundancy on type. Ain't happening.

It shows the groups desire to retain their highly qualified and experienced staff.

The other alternative for the QF group would otherwise be quite unpalatable with a quick loss of market share. How long would it take JB to source a dozen or so A330's and throw them into the Domestic arena with a few ex QF pilots willing to jump ship to stick it up Joyce.

It would also be naive to think some disgruntled Qf pilots haven't approached JB with a plan to provide instant crew to expand their widebody operation and poke Joyce in the eye with the financial backing of Etihad.

MC

Last edited by Mstr Caution; 10th Jun 2014 at 06:19.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 06:28
  #625 (permalink)  
 
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It is interesting that people resort to personal attacks because someone might have a different viewpoint.

Interesting so many QF pilots such as Keg for years belittled J* pilots for being on "Sh*t Money" - really quite a put down.

So of all the routes that the 330 flies overseas, to date we have actually only identified one route that "apparently" requires an SO, Shanghai, well I actually thought a lot of other airlines (including QF on the 767) flew this router two pilot.

Why is it that Jetstar flies to BKK two pilot , QF always takes along a SO. Really plenty here trying to spin the whole thing "complex legal procedures , reverse inverse matrix rule can only be applied".

Sure thing - lets face it you don't actually need SO on the A330 on any routes that it flies (Hong Kong, Manila, Sing etc)

Understand from the QF32 book the guys on the A380 had been doing little over two hundred hours a year , for the two or three years prior to the accident. Happy days $300K a year for the equivalent of one run to Hong Kong every fortnight.

I guess it could only be subsidized by other parts of the Qantas group for so long.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 06:31
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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thanks MC, very sad
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 06:32
  #627 (permalink)  
 
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If the plan was to kill off QF mainline, wouldn't you think AJ would be barging into FWA right now. Claiming undue financial pressure on the airline & pushing for redundancy on type. Ain't happening.
My bet is he's waiting on exact dollar figure after VR's have been exhausted to take to FWA to do exactly that.

......Flyboat as has been stated here before, the hours flown are so low because of reduced flying forced upon crew by QF. They could be utilised far far better but they aren't.

And just because J* are flying long night returns two crew doesn't mean it's safe. I know a few J* crew who were based in Darwin doing the insane two crew night marathons and they say one pilot sleeps northbound and the other southbound just to cope. Safe? No.

Just because it's legal doesn't make it safe.

"Sh*t money" isn't a personal put down its a statement that you're worth more for Gods sake. Can't you see that?

Who in their right mind pushes for LESS renumeration for their profession? Have some faith in yourself and your self worth for a change.

Ah forget it. Ignore list is less stressful than trying to reason with you.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 06:55
  #628 (permalink)  
 
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I guess it could only be subsidized by other parts of the Qantas group for so long.
That is so wrong. QF was making billion dollar profits. When making these profits, there was little incentive to extract much more efficiency from the workforce. Why upset the apple cart, risk strikes etc, when the money is pouring in.

We have seen it more recently in the mining industry, when the money is rolling in, efficiency takes a back seat and it's all about bringing in the money.

What QF did, was it didn't reinvest in new equipment to see it through the bad times. Instead it embarked on a new venture (Jetstar) as it saw this as the next big thing (which at the time it was, in Europe and beginning in SE Asia). So they starved mainline of investment to move into the low cost model.

As it turns out, times have changed again. Low Cost models are under real pressure (largely due do no barriers of entry because reputation, loyalty etc - it's all about ticket price, which keeps going down), whilst many full service carriers that did not take their eye off the ball, are reaping the rewards (BA, Delta etc etc). These airlines continue to be successful because they both reinvested and also maintained focus on workplace efficiency. (BA went through some pretty harsh workplace reform).
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 06:59
  #629 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
If the plan was to kill off QF mainline, wouldn't you think AJ would be barging into FWA right now. Claiming undue financial pressure on the airline & pushing for redundancy on type. Ain't happening.
My bet is he's waiting on exact dollar figure after VR's have been exhausted to take to FWA to do exactly that.
I think thats exactly what AJ is waiting for, the REAL numbers value on what is about to take place. But as has been mentioned before, the award expires at the end of the year so won't AJ going to FWA just bring all this negotiation forward to allow Aipa and the company to negotiate a new WD sooner? Could this be a good or bad thing considering the present??

I have my little mate FBN on the ignore list and it is Nirvana!
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 07:15
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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As a mere Pom the attitude and mindset of many people on this thread is very curious.
If your airline's costs are higher than your competitors then you must lower yours,or go bust.
QF competes with the Virgin Groups, ME airlines, and even BA all with a lower cost base.
You may have to fly 800/900 hrs a year, start a new low cost cabin crew contract, loose some lucrative allowances and Union practices etc. etc. as your competitors have done.
In BA we operate many B744 /777 sectors two pilot, noticing QF always have an S/O a luxury not required unless the duty period mandated it.
Although unpalatable, the QF's CEO mate Willie Walsh inherited the same problems in BA losing shed loads of money. With a bit of pain from all staff members he is now running a profitable and sustainable company.
Surely better to accept change than lose your job.
I've booked a QF seat to Aus later this year, I hope they will still be up and running!

Last edited by cessnapete; 10th Jun 2014 at 08:35.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 07:27
  #631 (permalink)  
 
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If your airline's costs are higher than your competitors then you must lower yours,or go bust.
QF competes with the Virgin Groups, ME airlines, and even BA all with a lower cost base.
You may have to fly 800/900 hrs a year, start a new low cost cabin crew contract, loose some lucrative allowances and Union practices etc. etc. as your competitors have done.
That was well and truly on offer during the last round of negotiations but the company chose not to negotiate at all and went as far as shutting down the airline as you might remember. That's the current management we are dealing with.

noticing QF always have an S/O a luxury not required unless the duty period mandated it.
Which mainly it is due to CASA regs. I can guarantee QF don't fly s/o's around so they can have a paid holiday at the companies expense. If they weren't required they wouldn't be there. Period.



I've booked a QF seat to Aus later this year, I hope they will still be up and running!
I'm sure there will be a cozy economy seat ready and waiting for you!


Although unpalatable, the QF's CEO mate Willie Walsh inherited the same problems in BA loosing shed loads of money. With a bit of pain from all staff members he is now running a profitable and sustainable company.
I agree, I can see parallels between whats going on now in QF and what happened in BA and SWISS 10 years ago.
And also parallels between jetstar and what happened to GO.

Last edited by Stalins ugly Brother; 10th Jun 2014 at 07:39.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 07:28
  #632 (permalink)  
 
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It's "lose" mate..... "Lose" . You invented the bloody language
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 07:46
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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ahhh thats better.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 07:55
  #634 (permalink)  
 
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CK,

Love your work.

N
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 08:11
  #635 (permalink)  
 
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AJ and Flight Ops would already know a ballpark figure as to what the redeployments and RIN's is going to cost them.

That's assuming they're competent in what their doing.

If they haven't got a ballpark figure, I'll give them some guidance.

$hitloads.

But I'm sure they knew that before the big JQ recruitment drive happened.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 08:20
  #636 (permalink)  
 
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Nazi
Sorry, spellin was never my best subject at skool. That's why I were a Jumbo pilot.

Stalin
Business Class old boy! QF had half price seat sale on the route.

It's obviously tough times Down Under, good luck.

Last edited by cessnapete; 10th Jun 2014 at 08:55.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 08:57
  #637 (permalink)  
 
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MC

I actually thought you had some idea but after reading your post(1545) I am not so sure, full of inaccuracy.
Lets at least get some of the facts correct.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 09:24
  #638 (permalink)  
 
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How long would it take JB to source a dozen or so A330's and throw them into the Domestic arena with a few ex QF pilots willing to jump ship to stick it up Joyce.
MC, the reality is there is excess supply in the domestic market. Cash burn on this capacity war looks like it will be coming to some sort of conclusion based on reports of capacity growth reduction.

Do you honestly think that QF pilots jumping ship will stick it up Joyce? You will only assist him with RIN.

There are a lot of Australian born A330 pilots in the world. Will placing a QF pilot in a VA aircraft want to make passengers 'jump ship' and fly with VA? In a time of oversupply, we all like to believe that we are better than our peers........but in reality you are no different to every other Australian pilot flying airliners worldwide. Please dont think that you are a scarcer commodity than your fellow professionals........it will only lead to disappointment.

The market will dictate your worth.

Last edited by KABOY; 10th Jun 2014 at 10:13.
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 10:24
  #639 (permalink)  
 
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What KABOY said
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Old 10th Jun 2014, 10:25
  #640 (permalink)  
 
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OK, I can't help myself. Hang on a tick spelling nazi...

Who in their right mind pushes for LESS renumeration for their profession?
It's "remuneration".

Regards,

spelling fuehrer
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