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Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?

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Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?

Old 25th Mar 2015, 02:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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I understand Flyboat is just trolling, however staff ratios are management induced, not employee.
Point the finger at management.
You write about crews per airframe.
When QF gifted A330's to JQ, they duplicated the pilot roles. Why didn't they have QF pilots fly the aircraft, rather than train additional crews? A few short years later those aircraft are returning to mainline and the additional crews that were hired are now being trained to fly Boeings.
Previously Tasman flying was crewed by QF pilots. Those roles have been duplicated by Jetconnect. Short haul pilots have been low on hours for close to a decade. Aircraft utilisation is abysmal as a result of creating new branches of the airline to operate existing routes.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 03:41
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Aircraft utilisation is abysmal
Does anyone have hard data on Qantas' utilisation by fleet or is the quoted statement based on gut feel rather than on fact? The numbers would be most illuminating.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 04:07
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
Does anyone have hard data on Qantas' utilisation by fleet or is the quoted statement based on gut feel rather than on fact? The numbers would be most illuminating.
Fleet utilisation is anecdotally extremely high - amongst the 21J-41Y categories at least
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:47
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Bare in mind
Brainless or braindead?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 21:41
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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In February, over 2600 members of the Transport Workers Union working at Qantas agreed to the wage freeze in return for commitments that they would continue to work under the existing terms if Qantas creates a new corporate entity for its international business, improved consultation and training provisions and access to long service leave.

Any chance we can get some negotiators from the TWU?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 21:52
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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"Any chance we can get some negotiators from the TWU?"


What? The same negotiators that recommended a YES vote to the Jetstar EBA that was voted down by 95%?
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 00:04
  #67 (permalink)  
Keg

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Except there was no duplication as Jetconnect was already established as a Domestic NZ carrier prior to being put on the Tasman.
There were 4 jets flying domestically in NZ. When Qantas shut down it's NZ domestic operation they transferred those aircraft and crew onto the Tasman and then expanded the operation. The mainline crew who previously operated those routes were transferred to Australian domestic ops with a commensurate drop in hours flown by mainline crew.

And we all know how JC came about don't we? Because mainline Pilots didn't want to fly in NZ.
I'm pretty sure that's not accurate either. Jetconnect was launched in NZ because Ansett NZ had fallen over and QF knew they could get a bunch of crew on lower terms and conditions than mainline pilots then enjoyed.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:48
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Keg you've been around long enough to know that's not quite correct.

In 2009 when Jetstar took over the NZ ops from Qantas, Jetconnect had 8 aircraft. 4 X 737-400's JTP, JTQ, JTR, JTS and
4 X 737-300's JNN, JND, JNC, JNB

At the time it was a mix of domestic and Tasman flights.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure it was Mainline crewed 737's flying domestically after Ansett went bust until Jetconnect was formed as a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas. Then kiwi crew started to be hired. Many of the initial crew in JC were Australian, ex Ansett. During the 13 years of JC operations there have been many mainline pilots fly for JC. Currently there are 2 mainline second officers on LWOP and many Aussies ex Qlink.

Jetconnect is an older wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas than Jetstar by one year.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:09
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Jetconnect was crewed by ex-Ansett pilots under a contract with AWAS. Qantas eventually took over the operation.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:20
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Jetconnect is an unnecessary complexity to Qantas 737 operations in my opinion. Nothing against the crew themselves. The idea that this setup saves money, with the AUD and NZD near parity is hard to swallow considering extra background staff required. So much for "One Airline, One customer"
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:59
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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From a TVNZ article May 1 2001:

"Qantas says for the first couple of months it will be using international flight crew, but by August it will have hired local staff for its domestic flights - but it will not say how many people it will be employing in New Zealand."

I'm pretty sure Qantas management would have sold the Jetconnect subsidiary to mainline pilots just like they sold the Jetstar subsidiary, full of lies and promises unfortunately.

I think once Qantas has reduced debt they will once again expand and hire new pilots. Running Jetconnect is a way to reduce costs during a time of debt conciliation.

Last edited by Fruet Mich; 27th Mar 2015 at 09:18.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 08:48
  #72 (permalink)  
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Fruit, thanks for the correction on the numbers. A long time ago now and the memory is a bit fuzzy.

....but by August it will have hired local staff for its domestic flights - but it will not say how many people it will be employing in New Zealand."
This was my original point in response to Elzilcho though. The issue wasn't that mainline pilots didn't want the flying when Jetconnect was created, it was that Qantas set it up to deliberately exclude mainline pilots from it.

How many aircraft in Jetconnect/ Kiwi rego now? Still 8 or is it more than that. Either way, when they closed down Qantas domestic NZ, those airframes and crew were shifted. To the Tasman to the detriment of mainline pilot flying hours.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 09:13
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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8 soon to be 7 with one going back to mainline. Jetstar picking up more Tasman flying.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 12:19
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Disregarding the crewing of Jetconnect, my original point was that fact that Qantas utilisation of 737's is reduced by not flying Tasman services that were previously covered from Australia. Those aircraft now sit idle overnight.
I clearly remember the early starts ex NZ to do 1st flight of the day back to Oz. At the other end of the 'Aus Day' we used to fly Perth/DRW to DPS, CGK, SIN as well as plenty of redeyes domestically. These flights are now operated by additional airframes by different 'entities'.
The additional airframes then need to fly during the day creating overcapacity.
If you think overnighting mainline crews in hotels in NZ is expensive, consider the expense of under utilised airframes & over capacity.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 20:49
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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I completely hear what you're saying -438, most of your flying has gone to Jetstar. It's frustrating watching it from the other side of the Tasman. Yes Jetconnect took over the remaining Tasman from mainline but that was a result of Jetstar. Jetstar now flies more Tasman destinations than Jetconnect. Its very frustrating watching more and more Qantas lines of flying being given to Jetstar. Look at the Hawaii, Queenstown, Tasmania, Darwin, Gold Coast, Japan and a lot of Tasman routes to name a few, all very profitable routes given to Jetstar. Jetconnect is the least of Qantas mainlines problems, it's definately been a thorn in her side but not the core problem.

Last edited by Fruet Mich; 27th Mar 2015 at 21:18.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 00:35
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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JC are not employees of Qantas. They are contractors. If there was a merger as you suggest, the contractors would not be absorbed into Qantas.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 00:53
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Jet connect is a "wholly owned subsidiary of QANTAS" and as such are employees of the group. Just like Jetstar, SAA, EAA and Network. The only contractors are Cobham and occasionally Alliance.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 05:22
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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And should the jetconnect flying be absorbed back into QANTAS mainline, all jetconnect crew would be welcomed with open arms in mainline. At the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 05:54
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by travelator View Post
Jet connect is a "wholly owned subsidiary of QANTAS" and as such are employees of the group. Just like Jetstar, SAA, EAA and Network. The only contractors are Cobham and occasionally Alliance.
In the transcript of AIPA vs QAL.
"In the courtís view, Jet Connect had not abandoned its corporate/commercial existence to the extent that it would warrant a finding that Qantas was the employer of Jet Connect pilots."
It may depend on NZ employment law and the contents of your contract but it's not clear cut. Is JC covered by Fair Work Australia law?

Last edited by crosscutter; 6th Apr 2015 at 06:21.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 07:17
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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And would that same courtesy be extended to the guys at EAA/SSA and Network?

The precedent has been set by the opposition, it's now time for the QF Group to emerge from the dark ages.

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