MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne
Age: 54
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree Scanner. The very best outcome would be for Qantas to make no VR offers at all to any pilot whatsoever.
That way, no young pilot goes out the door and all get to retire at a time of their choosing. Perfect solution.
Shooting the messenger is not going to change the fact that many ageing pilots won’t accept 12 months VR when it is not in their interest to do so.
My point is, the more generous any offer of VR is, the less the cost of RIN retraining and the less likely it is that young pilots will be shown the door.
Obviously there is a financially tipping point and it would be most regretful if inadequate offers of VR resulted in CR and hundreds of unproductive retraining courses.
That way, no young pilot goes out the door and all get to retire at a time of their choosing. Perfect solution.
Shooting the messenger is not going to change the fact that many ageing pilots won’t accept 12 months VR when it is not in their interest to do so.
My point is, the more generous any offer of VR is, the less the cost of RIN retraining and the less likely it is that young pilots will be shown the door.
Obviously there is a financially tipping point and it would be most regretful if inadequate offers of VR resulted in CR and hundreds of unproductive retraining courses.
But if Qantas does offer $2 then the pilots don't have to accept it. Then we get to compulsory redundancy. What mechanisms are built into the EBA for this? Is it from the bottom of the seniority list?
If so that means they will have to balance needing to get rid of people NOW with the fact a large number of pilots will be retiring over the next 5-10 years, possibly leaving them short again.
If so that means they will have to balance needing to get rid of people NOW with the fact a large number of pilots will be retiring over the next 5-10 years, possibly leaving them short again.
They will get very few for one year. Personally and including myself I know of five who will go for two years but are going to stay at one years. Maybe there will be a rethink if they don't get the numbers otherwise there are going to be massive training costs.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Exiled in the Ukraine
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
General consensus appears to be that 2 years would be the minimum before it was considered acceptable. The opinion being cost of the knock-on effect of these projected training positions caused by the RIN is going to far out way a few VR's at 2 years severance pay so why sell yourself short just to give AJ a free kick. Let's wait and see, feel sorry for the Junior guys though as it is all out of their hands.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not like this is an overnight event. This slow motion train wreck has been in progress since 2006 when the A332's were handed to Jetstar Int. This was the beginning of the assigned leave programme - 8 years and nothing has changed. Denial & foot dragging on MOU slots, this problem is entirely of managements own making. There aren't many cheap choices to fix the problem now.
As a worthy side note, the A332's were reportedly making $100 million per airframe to and from PER as the boom cranked up. Pure genius replacing them with the busted ar$e classics.
As a worthy side note, the A332's were reportedly making $100 million per airframe to and from PER as the boom cranked up. Pure genius replacing them with the busted ar$e classics.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to answer a few things to your discussion here.
The ALAEA WD has no scope whatsoever for the ALAEA to negotiate or the company to offer lesser redundancy terms. It is simply 3 weeks pay for each of the first 5 years and 4 weeks pay for each thereafter.
The 380 is massively labour intensive, particularly in the cabin. I am not licenced on it but I understand the problems are mainly the flimsy weight saving design of many parts.
Very interested to read more about the 380 weight restrictions on the DFW-SYD sector. Note the distance in 13,815k and the range of the generic 380 is 15,700k. Wondering is the Qantas range the same as this? Wondering how much fuel needs to be carried for alternates? Wondering how much the range reduces for each pax or tonne of freight?
The ALAEA WD has no scope whatsoever for the ALAEA to negotiate or the company to offer lesser redundancy terms. It is simply 3 weeks pay for each of the first 5 years and 4 weeks pay for each thereafter.
The 380 is massively labour intensive, particularly in the cabin. I am not licenced on it but I understand the problems are mainly the flimsy weight saving design of many parts.
Very interested to read more about the 380 weight restrictions on the DFW-SYD sector. Note the distance in 13,815k and the range of the generic 380 is 15,700k. Wondering is the Qantas range the same as this? Wondering how much fuel needs to be carried for alternates? Wondering how much the range reduces for each pax or tonne of freight?
Very interested to read more about the 380 weight restrictions on the DFW-SYD sector. Note the distance in 13,815k and the range of the generic 380 is 15,700k. Wondering is the Qantas range the same as this? Wondering how much fuel needs to be carried for alternates? Wondering how much the range reduces for each pax or tonne of freight?
13800km route at 490kt TAS into a 50kt headwind equates to 15350 air KMs.
13800km x TAS490/GS440 = 15368km
PS I just pulled the 50Kts average Headwind out of the air but I am guessing it could get that high on a bad day.
Last edited by Roo; 8th May 2014 at 23:19. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mostly at home
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- You can compare the DFW-SYD (7450 nm) to the current LAX-MEL (6900 nm) and get some ball-park figures. The extra 10% seats seems about right at the suggested 380 seats + bags for the A380 direct. No freight on either the current service to BNE or the A380 direct SYD.
- Adding about 15 t you'll get a fuel order at DFW of about 235 tonne give or take, and you'll depart at the max BRW of the aircraft as opposed to the restriction on the 744.
- Won't normally be able to handle any weather or alternate requirements at SYD (as now), and will probably have an exemption on ATC holding. Brisbane will be the enroute refuel point of choice, though if it is used, then duty times will get tight.
I think that's about it ... estimates only, but they'll be not too far off I'd say.
N
Something about yields amongst all of this....
I find this guy good at providing an alternate view to those of the expert and creedy.
Truce in Qantas, Virgin Australia dogfight a false dawn? | Aspire Aviation
I find this guy good at providing an alternate view to those of the expert and creedy.
Truce in Qantas, Virgin Australia dogfight a false dawn? | Aspire Aviation
Importantly, one should bear in mind that it is yield, or revenue per RPK measuring the return of airfares per unit of passenger traffic, that contributes to an airline’s bottom line. Qantas’s yields are currently at the lowest level in more than 10 years whereas Virgin has been reporting higher yields, owing to its successful capture of corporate travel contracts which the airline puts at high-20s. While it is true that Qantas still enjoys a revenue premium against Virgin, it is increasingly apparent that Qantas has not benefited from the recent rise in business class airfares which have soared to an index of 92.7 in April 2014, the highest since November 2011, according to the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics (BITRE).
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mostly at home
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've found this is pretty mesmerising for winds, temperatures etc. Click "Earth" to start selecting what you want ..
earth :: an animated map of global wind and weather
Winds and route depend on the day ... usually 10 - 30 kt average headwind ..
N
earth :: an animated map of global wind and weather
Winds and route depend on the day ... usually 10 - 30 kt average headwind ..
N
You guys up there would know better than I. What range do you see headwinds? Is it often to see headwinds the entire way when flying back over the big pond?
Todays QF8 has an average component of -17kt and the QF12 -15kt. so noips 10 to 30 is on the money.
I know its different engines and a heavier 380 takeoff weight, but EK figures for DXB to LAX yesterday (7491nm) are TOW = 565t (max 575t) revenue carried 55.5t (full seats of 489 plus a 4.5t freight) with a wind component of 0kts (over the pole).
LAX to DXB (7522nm) TOW 575t revenue carried 58.5t (full 489 seats plus 7.5t freight).
EK always carries an ALTN.
The Don
LAX to DXB (7522nm) TOW 575t revenue carried 58.5t (full 489 seats plus 7.5t freight).
EK always carries an ALTN.
The Don
Don,
What's the approximate empty weight of the Emirates 380's?
QF's are around 285T, so at MTOW they can carry 284T of payload and fuel.
What's the approximate empty weight of the Emirates 380's?
QF's are around 285T, so at MTOW they can carry 284T of payload and fuel.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 73
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This will be most attractive to those who are approaching 65 and who were intending to only stay another 1-3 years. Depending on the number of years of service the tax breaks may be enough to get them over the line. $4758/year for a 40 year employee works out to be $190k tax free. Will that be enough? Time will tell.
Ps those who have been saying 'Im just waiting for a redundancy, then I'm going to retire', time to put your tax free money where your mouth is
Ps those who have been saying 'Im just waiting for a redundancy, then I'm going to retire', time to put your tax free money where your mouth is
The only way to settle this mess other than the obvious is to offer VR and hope that enough take it, at least this will give the junior pilots some relief and hopefully a future. The trouble is the cost and what would be the cheaper, all the training costs plus having to make some compulsory redundancies to get the numbers right, or bite the bullet and have VR? My bet is the former.
QF's are around 285T, so at MTOW they can carry 284T of payload and fuel.
Being so range critical, the new availability of Cat II ILS systems won't be of much help as they will be unable to carry sufficient fuel for a full alternate.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dubai (AFP) - Emirates airlines, the largest Middle East carrier, said Thursday it posted a 43 percent surge in profit to $887 million last year as fuel costs dropped and passenger numbers rose.
Please explain......
Please explain......
I'm not sure there is much of a tax break for VR
Refer to the ATO website for all the details.
Holding out for "2 years, and not a day less". Haha!
Thats the funniest thing I've read all day. Good luck with that, pops!VR, if it happens, will be like every other role. You will express your interest and they will come back with a figure. Everyone's will be different. Why would they offer 2 years pay to someone on the top of the pile, when they could threaten to force him to displace someone in Perth?
As for who will take it? I'm guessing those who are considering a move o/s anyway. 767 and A330 crew with mid seniority who aren't holding out for 2 years pay is my guess.
Last edited by OneDotLow; 10th May 2014 at 05:03.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 73
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Holding out for "2 years, and not a day less". Haha! Thats the funniest thing I've read all day. Good luck with that, pops!