MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
but at the end of the day its actual bookings that count
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Livs Hairdresser
Good points. If you look at the depreciation allowance on last years annual report for the Jetstar group it was $116 Million dollars. They were operating 104 aircraft according to the pretty aircraft graphic. Domestic depreciated $619 million and international $673 million. There seems to be something wrong with this picture!!!
T-V:
You aren't management are you? If you aren't then that is exactly the way 'they' think.
They've sold the farm on outsourcing. And it's a brilliant idea.
Right up until you learn it's complete bullsh1t and you have nothing left to sell but snake oil.
The depreciation argument interests me a lot. Unfortunately it's allowed these buffoons more rope to hang themselves with - but (if true) I get how they did it while proving to themselves they were such genii.
What a shame none of them have ever run a small business and had to work out what you need to run a business and how easily you can wreck one.
What an obscene lesson in complete incompetence!
Just to explain: Whether it is a simple negative gearing question (Aussie term) or a multi billion dollar company, you should never, ever, ever base an investment strategy on losses. There is no secret about how to get a tax benefit, it is about losing money. And losing money is NOT HARD! Jesus Christ!! Whenever I think they couldn't be that stupid something comes up and proves I was wrong, again and again and again. For 15 years straight!!!
You aren't management are you? If you aren't then that is exactly the way 'they' think.
They've sold the farm on outsourcing. And it's a brilliant idea.
Right up until you learn it's complete bullsh1t and you have nothing left to sell but snake oil.
The depreciation argument interests me a lot. Unfortunately it's allowed these buffoons more rope to hang themselves with - but (if true) I get how they did it while proving to themselves they were such genii.
What a shame none of them have ever run a small business and had to work out what you need to run a business and how easily you can wreck one.
What an obscene lesson in complete incompetence!
Just to explain: Whether it is a simple negative gearing question (Aussie term) or a multi billion dollar company, you should never, ever, ever base an investment strategy on losses. There is no secret about how to get a tax benefit, it is about losing money. And losing money is NOT HARD! Jesus Christ!! Whenever I think they couldn't be that stupid something comes up and proves I was wrong, again and again and again. For 15 years straight!!!
Last edited by V-Jet; 28th Apr 2014 at 11:39.
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I don't think anything coming out of Qantas is believable.
A personal perspective
Qantas has been very quiet since late February when it outlined the massive job cuts that have yet to happen other than in a token way, and the Abbott cabinet slammed the money box shut on its fingers when it asked for a $3 billion unsecured loan.
There are however, timely reminders that investors, employees and any customers who give a damn anymore are drumming their fingers, waiting for the next stroke of management brilliance.
Such as this very interesting story in the Sydney Morning Herald.
It focuses on adding capacity to Jetstar domestic flights on routes in SE Australia where it can’t fail to take business away from the full service Qantas network, against the backdrop of morale boosting threats being made by management to mainline staff and by inference the prospect of their being reassigned to Jetstar.
Let’s widen the focus on Jetstar. Qantas has around 11 delivered but idle brand new A320s that have been parked for months at enormous costs awaiting expansion approvals for Jetstar Japan and approval to operate at all for Jetstar Hong Kong.
That’s around $US 4 million a month not counting finance charges and fixed costs including labour. That’s also the size of the Tigerair Australia fleet, which isn’t profitable either on the most recent Virgin guidance, but certainly isn’t idle.
To park a fleet of brand new jets costing a fortune for months that is the size of your competitor’s domestic low cost brand requires genius. And to pretend like Qantas has that these jets are variously ‘operational spares’ or just being lined up for the inevitable richly lucrative Hong Kong operation requires audacity. And a board and major investors that are brain dead.
Of course relief is at hand. In February Qantas said it was holding off on Jetstar Asia expansion. Great, after almost 10 years of snake oiling the promise of the Jetstar franchise in Asia, and diverting massive sums of money into its development, it’s so good it’s on hold.
The bad news is that Virgin Australia shows no signs of investing in a fleet expansion that would pick up the disenchanted from Qantas, or who will be very disenchanted if they discover that flying Qantas really means being shunted into Jetstar, and then remind Qantas of something it may have forgotten, which is that they have a choice.
This may also however be evidence that Virgin is rational. Having more customers than you can seat is much better than having more seats than customers. If Virgin thinks Tigerair is the answer …. No … let’s not even go there.
Late last week there was another Fairfax story which revisited the worst nightmare for many Qantas watchers, in that it quoted its chief executive international, Simon Hickey, as saying he believed the international business could return to profitability with its current fleet, particularly as its ageing 747s are retired.
That could be interpreted as meaning that Qantas will not take up its options for Boeing 787-9s , the second and much improved version of the Dreamliner as they start falling due, quite soon, for delivery slots which start to become available under those options in 2016.
It could also be interpreted as meaning that plans to keep the least aged 747s in service until the end of this decade or early into the next were being brought forward.
The refurbishment of Qantas owned A330s and the entry into service of brand new 787-9s are two capital expenditure items that Qantas watchers may have reason to fret about.
Yet the only material insight into the success of the current Qantas management’s strategies for international services so far has come not from Qantas, but Emirates, which is on the record as praising the flow of Qantas premium customers onto its A380s, under the ‘business’ partnership in which Qantas gave the Dubai based carrier its carriage of the kangaroo route markets to London from Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane for nothing.
And quit Frankfurt, another plus for Emirates and competitors such as Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific.
It’s an alarming outlook as Qantas implodes its way to success. The Jetstar franchise is on hold in Asia, new equipment purchases for Qantas are under a cloud, and while it stands still or goes backwards, its competitors are all growing, because demand for travel between Australia and the world isn’t standing around waiting for the Australian carrier to do something. Other than complain about everyone else and agitate for corporate welfare from government.
Qantas quiet as deadlines for 787s, and jobs approach | Plane Talking
my bold
Qantas has been very quiet since late February when it outlined the massive job cuts that have yet to happen other than in a token way, and the Abbott cabinet slammed the money box shut on its fingers when it asked for a $3 billion unsecured loan.
There are however, timely reminders that investors, employees and any customers who give a damn anymore are drumming their fingers, waiting for the next stroke of management brilliance.
Such as this very interesting story in the Sydney Morning Herald.
It focuses on adding capacity to Jetstar domestic flights on routes in SE Australia where it can’t fail to take business away from the full service Qantas network, against the backdrop of morale boosting threats being made by management to mainline staff and by inference the prospect of their being reassigned to Jetstar.
Let’s widen the focus on Jetstar. Qantas has around 11 delivered but idle brand new A320s that have been parked for months at enormous costs awaiting expansion approvals for Jetstar Japan and approval to operate at all for Jetstar Hong Kong.
That’s around $US 4 million a month not counting finance charges and fixed costs including labour. That’s also the size of the Tigerair Australia fleet, which isn’t profitable either on the most recent Virgin guidance, but certainly isn’t idle.
To park a fleet of brand new jets costing a fortune for months that is the size of your competitor’s domestic low cost brand requires genius. And to pretend like Qantas has that these jets are variously ‘operational spares’ or just being lined up for the inevitable richly lucrative Hong Kong operation requires audacity. And a board and major investors that are brain dead.
Of course relief is at hand. In February Qantas said it was holding off on Jetstar Asia expansion. Great, after almost 10 years of snake oiling the promise of the Jetstar franchise in Asia, and diverting massive sums of money into its development, it’s so good it’s on hold.
The bad news is that Virgin Australia shows no signs of investing in a fleet expansion that would pick up the disenchanted from Qantas, or who will be very disenchanted if they discover that flying Qantas really means being shunted into Jetstar, and then remind Qantas of something it may have forgotten, which is that they have a choice.
This may also however be evidence that Virgin is rational. Having more customers than you can seat is much better than having more seats than customers. If Virgin thinks Tigerair is the answer …. No … let’s not even go there.
Late last week there was another Fairfax story which revisited the worst nightmare for many Qantas watchers, in that it quoted its chief executive international, Simon Hickey, as saying he believed the international business could return to profitability with its current fleet, particularly as its ageing 747s are retired.
That could be interpreted as meaning that Qantas will not take up its options for Boeing 787-9s , the second and much improved version of the Dreamliner as they start falling due, quite soon, for delivery slots which start to become available under those options in 2016.
It could also be interpreted as meaning that plans to keep the least aged 747s in service until the end of this decade or early into the next were being brought forward.
The refurbishment of Qantas owned A330s and the entry into service of brand new 787-9s are two capital expenditure items that Qantas watchers may have reason to fret about.
Yet the only material insight into the success of the current Qantas management’s strategies for international services so far has come not from Qantas, but Emirates, which is on the record as praising the flow of Qantas premium customers onto its A380s, under the ‘business’ partnership in which Qantas gave the Dubai based carrier its carriage of the kangaroo route markets to London from Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane for nothing.
And quit Frankfurt, another plus for Emirates and competitors such as Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific.
It’s an alarming outlook as Qantas implodes its way to success. The Jetstar franchise is on hold in Asia, new equipment purchases for Qantas are under a cloud, and while it stands still or goes backwards, its competitors are all growing, because demand for travel between Australia and the world isn’t standing around waiting for the Australian carrier to do something. Other than complain about everyone else and agitate for corporate welfare from government.
Qantas quiet as deadlines for 787s, and jobs approach | Plane Talking
my bold
AJ doesn't need to do any scaremongering, the reported financials and share price speak for themselves, let alone the airfare prices on offer in the marketplace
Qantas foots big Modern Family bill amid job cuts
Tony Webber, a former Qantas chief economist and now associate professor at the University of Sydney's business school, said although the airline had cut hundreds of millions from its marketing budget in recent years, the cost of its Modern Family investment was five to six times the spend of a typical marketing campaigns.
''If you're losing $252 million a [half-] year, it seems to me to be relatively risky and irresponsible spending that much money,'' he said.
''If you're losing $252 million a [half-] year, it seems to me to be relatively risky and irresponsible spending that much money,'' he said.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 29th Apr 2014 at 17:27.
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Qantas Airways Group passenger numbers down 0.6% – traffic highlights for Mar-2014:
•Passenger numbers: 4.1 million, -0.6% year-on-year;
◦Qantas Domestic: 1.4 million, -3.5%;
◦Qantas International: 458,000, -6.5%;
◦Jetstar Domestic: 1.0 million, +6.6%;
◦Jetstar International: 395,000, -10.8%;
◦QantasLink: 483,000, +5.8%;
◦Jetstar Asia: 347,000, +5.4%
;
•Passenger load factor: 74.4%, -4.9 ppts;
◦Qantas Domestic: 73.6%, -4.2 ppts;
◦Qantas International: 74.3%, -6.5 ppts;
◦Jetstar Domestic: 80.4%, -2.8 ppts;
◦Jetstar International: 72.4%, -3.8 ppts;
◦QantasLink: 60.9%, -3.6 ppts;
◦Jetstar Asia: 80.5%, -2.9 ppts.
Qantas: “For the financial year to date, Qantas Group yields were lower than the prior corresponding period. Total Domestic (comprising Qantas Domestic, QantasLink and Jetstar Domestic) yields were lower than the prior corresponding period as a result of continued market capacity growth and weak demand. Total International yields were lower than the prior corresponding period due to persistently high levels of competitor capacity growth,”
^^ Yield down & load factor down. That's not good.
•Passenger numbers: 4.1 million, -0.6% year-on-year;
◦Qantas Domestic: 1.4 million, -3.5%;
◦Qantas International: 458,000, -6.5%;
◦Jetstar Domestic: 1.0 million, +6.6%;
◦Jetstar International: 395,000, -10.8%;
◦QantasLink: 483,000, +5.8%;
◦Jetstar Asia: 347,000, +5.4%
;
•Passenger load factor: 74.4%, -4.9 ppts;
◦Qantas Domestic: 73.6%, -4.2 ppts;
◦Qantas International: 74.3%, -6.5 ppts;
◦Jetstar Domestic: 80.4%, -2.8 ppts;
◦Jetstar International: 72.4%, -3.8 ppts;
◦QantasLink: 60.9%, -3.6 ppts;
◦Jetstar Asia: 80.5%, -2.9 ppts.
Qantas: “For the financial year to date, Qantas Group yields were lower than the prior corresponding period. Total Domestic (comprising Qantas Domestic, QantasLink and Jetstar Domestic) yields were lower than the prior corresponding period as a result of continued market capacity growth and weak demand. Total International yields were lower than the prior corresponding period due to persistently high levels of competitor capacity growth,”
^^ Yield down & load factor down. That's not good.
Yield down & load factor down. That's not good.
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Originally Posted by Blueskymine
Jetstar doesn't own anything to depreciate
Next.
Next.
But the people who lease the plane to Jetstar charge a Lease Charge.
(even if the said aircraft is sitting on the ground
)This charge effectively includes depreciation (that the lessor suffers) and purchase cost (interest and dividend/profit)...
Thus it is much easier for Qantas to be EBITDA or cashflow positive, compared to Jetstar
--
Thus the other way of looking at the statement that QFi is cashflow positive but can't cover depreciation
is that if QFi sold all its aircraft to a Lessor today (or put them in a standalone vehicle) and charged a market lease rate,
then QFi would be cashflow negative
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And the answer,
AJ has been saying this for a while now which for me confirms his strategy has been out of sink with what was previously going on in the region, not just locally. He was cutting whilst everyone else was growing.
Singapore Airlines cutting back on A380 services to Australia
I suspect it will be harder more than ever to claw back market share if these conditions persist especially for QFI's current fleet structure with no new equipment orders in sight. Not exactly nimble in comparison to the competition.
Yep, after reading those figures above, it's more evident now than ever before. Also, it appears to be a general market trend across the board, for both full service and LCC airlines which are showing signs of weakness for demand, says to me it is going to be a tough few months ahead for a magic transformation...
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ting-in-perth/
"In order to stay strong, we have to cut our costs," he told a business forum in Perth on Wednesday.
"It's about being smarter and more nimble.
"We've already done some serious heavy lifting.
"We're having to do some really tough things."
He noted Perth had lost several international routes that had become unprofitable.
But Qantas had to take a long term view of its future, and the aviation industry had changed permanently, characterised by "a giant wave of airline capacity", ongoing record fuel prices and "an uneven playing field in the domestic market", referring to Virgin Australia.
Tough choices for Qantas necessary: Joyce
my bold
"It's about being smarter and more nimble.
"We've already done some serious heavy lifting.
"We're having to do some really tough things."
He noted Perth had lost several international routes that had become unprofitable.
But Qantas had to take a long term view of its future, and the aviation industry had changed permanently, characterised by "a giant wave of airline capacity", ongoing record fuel prices and "an uneven playing field in the domestic market", referring to Virgin Australia.
Tough choices for Qantas necessary: Joyce
my bold
Singapore Airlines cutting back on A380 services to Australia
I suspect it will be harder more than ever to claw back market share if these conditions persist especially for QFI's current fleet structure with no new equipment orders in sight. Not exactly nimble in comparison to the competition.
the 65% line in the sand is killing us
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ting-in-perth/
Last edited by TIMA9X; 30th Apr 2014 at 07:40.
short flights long nights
AJ seems very good at blaming everyone else...now it is the people of Perths fault.
I read an article the other day about gen Y. Basically it was some business type complaining that gen Y has no loyalty to the company.
It's just that we are smarter than the other generations. That simple.
It's like this guys.
They don't give two ****s about you. You are a number in a book. Why do you show such loyalty to people who simply do not care. You act like dogs. Keep getting hit but always come back for more.
As soon as something better comes along- quit. And don't even think twice.
If you can't find anything better or not prepared to change- stop complaining.
When qantas goes- there will be something to replace it.
It's just that we are smarter than the other generations. That simple.
It's like this guys.
They don't give two ****s about you. You are a number in a book. Why do you show such loyalty to people who simply do not care. You act like dogs. Keep getting hit but always come back for more.
As soon as something better comes along- quit. And don't even think twice.
If you can't find anything better or not prepared to change- stop complaining.
When qantas goes- there will be something to replace it.
Obviously the 13 in your name also indicates your age.......
All the while they know you won't try to undercut them to the highest bidder because you believe they will look after you and care about you well being, as they are socially responsible company who wouldn't dream of replacing you with anyone who will do it cheaper.
The older generations really have such a strange ethic- unfortunately the company knows this and thus the raping can continue.
Mikk 13 surely it will not have escaped your notice that you are posting on a pilot forum? You may not be aware, but pilots are not as free to change employers once they accrue a bit of seniority.
Certainly everyone in the junior third of the list should read the writing on the wall. Everyone in the top third is too old to move. That leaves the unfortunate middle third who are largely also captive unless they become expatriates-a choice they would have made by now if that was actually a viable option.
The company knows all of this, of course, but our expectations and their past promises are mere curiosities:something to be chuckled at over candlelight at Rockpool.
Certainly everyone in the junior third of the list should read the writing on the wall. Everyone in the top third is too old to move. That leaves the unfortunate middle third who are largely also captive unless they become expatriates-a choice they would have made by now if that was actually a viable option.
The company knows all of this, of course, but our expectations and their past promises are mere curiosities:something to be chuckled at over candlelight at Rockpool.
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one day mikk 13 when you have put a significant part of your life in to one particular endeavour, you might begin to see.
seniority does have some good points but by hell it can be a noose too.
seniority does have some good points but by hell it can be a noose too.