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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 23rd Mar 2014, 12:38
  #3621 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
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They really seem to have no idea, or they are tying themselves in knots by lying so much, or a bit of both.

Or have they been too clever for their own good, and made the various company structures so complicated, that they actually don't understand what is actually happening anymore.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:10
  #3622 (permalink)  
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Paul Howes to quit AWU. Probably going to run QANTAS with Olivia!
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:18
  #3623 (permalink)  
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Here's a link to the Flight Global article.


I have watched the Senate Inquiry a second time after reading this article.

Gareth Evans quite clearly stated Qantas don't lease aircraft to any other entities other than Jetstar Singapore. This was confirmed by Jetstar Group CEO Jayne Hrdlicka.

So I'm left confused why Ellis Taylor would later write in a Flight Global article. That after checking an online fleet database the JQ Hong Kong Aircraft are actually owned by Qantas.

Are the aircraft not yet leased and owned by Qantas and therefore a cost to Qantas whilst parked?

Are the Qantas owned aircraft leased to JQ Hong Kong therefore making the Senate Inquiry statements incorrect.

Are there other terms by which JQ Hong Kong access the Qantas owned aircraft?

Or is the online paid subscription fleet ownership database incorrect?

Who is financially responsible for the aircraft already ordered and not yet delivered for Jetstar Hong Kong?

Flight Global reports there are 9 more aircraft on order. Is this figure correct?

Has the second tranche payment of $33 Million happened yet? If not when is the second investment payment due?


Last edited by Mstr Caution; 23rd Mar 2014 at 22:30.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:20
  #3624 (permalink)  
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I hesitated to post because some people think it is off topic, but I do (hope not!!) that it has significance. If only as background. SP would know more. My guess is he thought he was too far off the PM's job with too many in front of him. At least the Odious Wirth won't (again hopefully not) be 1st 'lady'. I think I'd even rather Joyce in that role! I don't think Howes is a fool, probably his 'anti AWU' speech was feathering a post Union nest rather than anything untoward politically. I _really_really_ hope he and worthless leave QF alone!!

AWU?s Paul Howes calls it quits

The national secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union, Paul Howes, is expected to quit the union movement on Monday, robbing Labor of one its *rising stars and the union movement of a strong advocate for reform.

The union leader has been quietly preparing senior Labor Party and ACTU figures for his resignation, according to ALP sources close to the move.

It is not known what Mr Howes will do next, although he is marrying *Qantas executive Olivia Wirth in April. Mr Howes, who is scheduled to attend an AWU national executive meeting in Perth on Monday, did not respond to The Australian Financial Review’s questions on Sunday.

The Financial Review has been told he had been seeking a job in the corporate sector but it is understood Mr Howes has no immediate plans.

His departure from the trade union movement, with which he has been associated since 1999, is not regarded by those close to him as the end of his *political aspirations.

Only 32 years old, Mr Howes has plenty of time before he needs to enter federal Parliament, should he so wish.

After an aborted tilt at the Senate last year, he had fixed his sights over the longer term on a lower house seat.

Mr Howes replaced Bill Shorten at the helm of the AWU in 2007, when Mr Shorten, now Opposition Leader, entered Parliament.

The AWU’s assistant national secretary, Scott McDine, is expected to succeed Mr Howes as national secretary of the 135,000-member union.

Mr Howes has endured a gruelling past few years and people close to him said he was looking for a change.

It is understood that he has been frustrated at the labour movement’s response to his calls for modernisation.

When Bob Carr quit the Senate *following Labor’s election loss last year, Mr Howes, a key figure in the NSW Right, lost a fight to take the spot. His support for gay marriage and his closeness to the Jewish lobby was used against him internally.

This followed a torrid period for the so-called faceless man who remained loyal to former prime minister Julia *Gillard throughout her leadership *skirmishes with Kevin Rudd.

When Mr Shorten abandoned Ms Gillard in June last year to help reinstall Mr Rudd as Labor leader and prime minister, relations between Mr Shorten and Mr Howes cooled significantly.

His departure will leave the labour movement without one of its strongest and most outspoken voices.

Ms Wirth also suffered professionally because of her association with Mr Howes, losing her government relations role with Qantas and moving to a senior marketing and branding role for the airline.

Mr Howes leaves the labour movement as the Abbott government is mounting a full-scale assault on trade unions with its royal commission into union corruption.

The AWU is a specific target of the commission because of a slush fund operated by a former boyfriend of Ms Gillard’s more than two decades ago.

Mr Howes has been a fierce critic and opponent of corruption during his years in the movement.

Last year, he called on Labor to support laws proposed by Tony Abbott to bring penalties for corrupt union bosses into line with those of corrupt corporate executives.

Mr Howes is set to shed all his political duties.

It is likely he will resign his position on the Labor Party’s national executive and will step down as vice-president of the Australian Council of Trade Unions. He has also been one of the more progressive thinkers on policy and labour movement reform.

In his speech to the National Press Club in February, he called for a “grand compact” between business and unions. But he was criticised heavily by many on his own side, moreover because of his excoriation of both side of politics for the policy see-saw which industrial relations policy has become. He chipped those in Labor for decrying every Coalition policy utterance as WorkChoices and acknowledged the current Fair Work Act had resulted in unsustainable wages growth in some sectors, such as offshore oil and gas.

His departure comes more as a shock given the speech was regarded as Mr Howes setting sights politically as a reformer. He is a non-executive director and deputy chairman of the country’s largest industry superannuation fund AustralianSuper.

Mr Howes writes a regular column for the Financial Review.
Re the Jet* leases. I am 'convinced' Qf are paying for the leases (as I guess most are) but I am equally certain that Qf will have a large array of possibilities for answering Sen Xen's 'on notice' question as to how much the storage/leasing is costing. I can't see themselves being dumb enough to leave a simple thing like that open to hang them. They have not closed any doors on that answer with their 'answers' so far... I was stunned at Joyce's audacity to say 'he didn't know' when clearly the CEO should be on top of such painful losses and the reasons they are worth enduring. It was (as usual) a cunning dance around the topic by minions and Joyce. A sickening display of why the place is in the state it is.

Last edited by V-Jet; 23rd Mar 2014 at 22:42.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:17
  #3625 (permalink)  
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If Howe runs true to form like so many other former union creeps, he will go to work for Qantas.
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 02:39
  #3626 (permalink)  
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If Howe runs true to form like so many other former union creeps, he will go to work for Qantas.
It became so common, back in the day, Qantas staff had a song about it, sung to the tune of "The Red Flag".
Part of it went:

"The working class can kiss my a***,
I've found a Qantas job at last".
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 02:51
  #3627 (permalink)  

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Just a little thread drift as the union bashing comes in.

Spare a thought for poor Arthur. Icon of the Liberal Right. Earning a paltry $200k for 100 hours work. And it's unions and workers who are blamed for all economic ills.

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Old 24th Mar 2014, 04:44
  #3628 (permalink)  
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all together now, well that was back in 1973,

Now the landscape has changed to big business & government, the employees are at their mercy.

Last edited by TIMA9X; 26th Mar 2014 at 15:19. Reason: add video after storm blackout
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 08:30
  #3629 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't be surprised if Olivia has already created a position for Howes in Qantas.

BTW, would anyone know if Paul Howes is related to Mark Howes HR Director (might be former) of Ericsson Australia? I may have something of interest to post.
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 10:45
  #3630 (permalink)  
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Paul Howes was sued by his step father for (among other things) 'political grandstanding' in a Women's Weekly article. It was settled. Gary Howes is in mining and an ex Policeman. His real father I know not of.

Either Howes is leaving a sinking ship (AWU) for fear of what might come out in a Royal Commission (and I'm led to believe if he isn't living in Australia he doesn't have to testify) to run away, wait for the chance to jump back in as an ALP White Knight or some other opportunity.

Given Livvie's rumoured $1m salary (could I be more proud to work for Qantas!) he could spend his life playing bingo at the local pub and still struggle by better than most/all of us.

I sincerely hope any other opportunity doesn't involve his invaluable skills in Employee Relations at Qantas with that horrid and totally out of her depth Wirthless.

I would hope it's impossible, but every time I write something off as being too wrong to happen, in Qf's case, I am constantly disappointed.
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 10:58
  #3631 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't be surprised if Olivia has already created a position for Howes in Qantas.
I'm sure she has an opening for him!
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 12:08
  #3632 (permalink)  
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Is it just me, or is Paul Howes looking terribly aged for 32? One article I read said he's burnt out, no conspiracies - I would believe it.

Does that make Olivia Wirth a cougar? She'd be pushing 40 wouldn't she?
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 12:11
  #3633 (permalink)  
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A big thankyou for posting the Senate enquiry vids. Have just finished watching them and am a bit perplexed by that little cretin boasting about safety is our 1st priority, our safety record is the envy of airlines the world over, the unions are scaremongering by pulling the old safety card etc, etc, etc.
Nobody has asked that little cretin who actually built our enviable safety record to what it is today. I can only think of 2 departments who did this... Flt ops and Engineering.
Now he wants to offshore a great wack of maintenance and dumb down whats left back here. GOD HELP QANTAS AND ALL WHO SAIL IN HER...

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Old 24th Mar 2014, 13:01
  #3634 (permalink)  
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I am sure anyone who watched George Pell give evidence today at the child abuse commission, noticed the similarity to Alan Joyce,as we had yet another leader responding to questions,with, "I cant recall" etc etc.................followed by 4 corners and the non appearance of the leaders of 2 australian art galleries...................whose oversight was sadly lacking in relation to the purchase of what appear to be stolen pieces of art, one to the tune of 5 million dollars of tax payers money!

We must all be grateful for the quality and accountability of leadership we have in this country!!
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 15:54
  #3635 (permalink)  
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Paraphrasing that famous scene.....(sick of the 'Der Untergang' one)
We use words like airmanship, safety. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent flying for this airline. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a CEO who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very safety that I provide, and then questions the cost of providing it.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 02:37
  #3636 (permalink)  
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Angry Isn't that the truth...

Chronic Snoozer,

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Old 25th Mar 2014, 02:38
  #3637 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up

Hempy and Snoozer,

Hear, hear.

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Old 25th Mar 2014, 02:53
  #3638 (permalink)  

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Dissenting Report by Nick Xenophon, Independent Senator for South Australia ? Parliament of Australia
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 03:58
  #3639 (permalink)  
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Senator X deserves a medal for maintaining his integrity and rationality despite his continuous exposure to the ignorance and ego-driven bullsh*t that passes itself off as 'party politics' in our Federal capital. Sadly, his criticisms of Joyce's 'management' of Qantas will probably be seen as bias by AJ's mates in the (Chairman's Lounge) political right, and his call for a review of the mindless Open Skies Policy may well take too long to save the Roo from continued capacity-dumping in the domestic aviation market or the Leprechaun's next effort at Orange Asian expansion.

As I approach my more mature years, I have become increasingly disillusioned with the farce that passes itself off as national governance in Canberra. As evidenced by the recent Senate hearings, many politicians lack the knowledge to be able to competently tackle complex issues, with some not even being diligent enough to read the expert submissions of those like Steve P who are in a position to explain the issues for them. Instead, we are subjected to grandstanding bullies like Senator Evans, to whom anything other than 'blue ribbon Liberal policies' are like a red flag to a bull. A political career nowadays seems to represent nothing more than an opportunity to provide favours for one's preferred interest groups prior to retiring from Canberra and cashing in on those favours.

The one exception to the above comments, in my opinion, is Senator Nick Xenophon, who is obviously highly intelligent and seems to be generally concerned with the welfare of the nation's population that he serves. If only we could clone him about 200 times, abolish all political parties and let proposals stand or fall in Parliament on their merits, rather than through the 'mine's bigger than yours' approach of current party politics. Unfortunately, Nick seems to be unique and the only options offered as alternatives to the entrenched political parties are redneck miner's or fish-and-chips shop owners from the North.

To Senator Xenophon I would say, congratulations on your unwavering efforts to improve the level of informed political debate in this country and long may you keep the bastards honest!
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 04:57
  #3640 (permalink)  
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Shark Patrol.
Well said indeed, but instead of seeing despair, there may well be another solution.

If the motorists party can get someone into the senate, why cannot the aviation sector do the same, in all states?

There is 2 years to get suitable candidates, and mobilise.

Give Nick some company.
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