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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 7th Mar 2014, 22:14
  #3261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Queensland
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How many $M was Margaret going to make from the deal? And Dixon too. I remember the hugging and kissy-kissy when they thought the deal had gone through, only to be stymied at the last moment.

Of course she was right! If that deal had gone though, imho, the result would have been asset stripping on a grand scale and no QF within 6 months. Would probably not have survived the GFC, if it had survived until then.

That consortium was not interested in buying an airline, purely an asset. At least QF has lasted until now, even very badly managed.
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Old 7th Mar 2014, 23:20
  #3262 (permalink)  
 
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James Packer is right.

He never said that it would have been better for the airline, just the shareholders at the time.

I sold all of my shares at $5.80 figuring that it was wildly over-priced at that level. From a novice investor point of view it was by far the best outcome for me as a shareholder. As an employee my skills aren't as portable as my capital so I get to watch the train wreck forever.

As an aside a more savvy friend bought at $5.75. I begged and cajoled him to get out since then...he finally capitulated at $1.25. While I wonder at the shareholders' behaviour knowing what I do I guess many of them are the old-fashioned buy-and-hold variety, expecting that the board and ASIC will vouchsafe their funds over time. Including my otherwise sharp friend.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 00:08
  #3263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Simple really. Those tasked with making people redundant aren't going to look at themselves, are they?!
And herein lies the problem! None of the executives are being honest about their own management performance. They are all so out of their depth it is not even funny, it is bloody scary! Some of the crap that comes out of their mouths is unbelievable and it just leaves you shaking your head. They are not willing to address the mistakes they make, they are all about blaming everyone else, it has gotten to the point that the inner executive management circle have blamed everyone else enough that they are convinced it is true!

The mismanagement performance is far and wide, getting rid of Clifford and Joyce won't be enough. QF is being strangled from within and only getting rid of the entire top rung(below AJ) on the new management structure chart will give QF a chance at a lifeline, a chance to breath.

What is really sad, these ladies and gents don't even realise they are part of the problem.

That SMH article is right - most employees on Wednesday couldn't understand how the top rung was untouched but the level below we're seeing the axe. The top rung and the board are why we are in this position and yet they all kept their jobs. Laughable if it wasn't so serious
Yep, everyone at work that I have spoken to expressed the same dismay and disgust. QF management, you should be ashamed of yourselves, but I suspect as I outlined above, you won't even realise. I suspect that come Senate enquiry time their will be plenty lining up; "et tu Brute?" style.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 00:08
  #3264 (permalink)  
 
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I guess many of them are the old-fashioned buy-and-hold variety
Probably the good old-fashioned pride of ownership ethos, a totally foreign concept to the deers with no eyes that are currently running the company.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 00:14
  #3265 (permalink)  
 
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''History is going to show that, from a purely economic perspective, for the shareholders at the time, Margaret was 100 per cent right,'' he said. ''With the benefit of hindsight, and hindsight is easy, I think the bid would have been good for shareholders to take back then. Qantas is clearly a company not doing as well as it once was, and it is an important company for Australia.''
While true from that perspective, other factors like fiduciary duty, ethics, moral standards influence change of that perspective to show that Dixon and Jackson were wrong to recommend the sale. The outcome from the sale would have been a devastating strip and sale of what was left, without any recourse for the employees.

Truly tragic, and thankfully did not occur.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 00:37
  #3266 (permalink)  
 
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In this interview at a trade show the Dubai based carrier’s Chief Commercial Officer Thierry Antinori says Qantas has given it more business class passengers, boosted yields, and more than offset pressure on its economy class sales.
So what, exactly, did Qantas think they were going to get out of the relationship with Emirates?

(And how's that working out for you, Alan?)
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 01:41
  #3267 (permalink)  
 
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How many of 'the management' are ex Ansett?
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 02:11
  #3268 (permalink)  
 
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"How many of 'the management' are ex Ansett?"
Too many!
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 02:48
  #3269 (permalink)  
 
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Someone needs to tell the management that they can admit they got decisions wrong - but they never do
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 06:25
  #3270 (permalink)  
 
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Clifford and Joyce are not going anywhere soon, at least three more years of BGA... God help us...

CLIFFORD: Alan Joyce 'Is Not Going Anywhere', Endorses Him For 3 More Years | Business Insider

It looks like Alan Joyce will stay in the top job at Qantas for at least another three years, bringing his leadership of the troubled airline to nearly nine years.
Qantas Airways chairman Leigh Clifford told The Australian Financial Review that “He’s not going anywhere,” referring to Joyce’s future with the airline amid growing calls for the CEO to step down as the company attempts to stem its losses.
Clifford said he expects Joyce to continue leading the airline for at least the next three years to manage the newly unveiled $2 billion cost-cutting plan.
Qantas is axing 5000 jobs and hoping the federal parliament will loosen foreign ownership laws so the carrier can attract more capital investment to match rival Virgin Australia.
Read more here.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 06:50
  #3271 (permalink)  
 
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Dear God the airline is screwed.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 06:55
  #3272 (permalink)  
 
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Fine for these guys to hold ranks but they have made a few enemies and have a few storm clouds coming their way via senate inquiry. I know that doesn't help those being targeted now but this game is far from over for aj and Clifford.”
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 07:01
  #3273 (permalink)  
 
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I personally hope AJ and Clifford remain in charge for years to come.

But then again, I do work for Virgin!
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 07:49
  #3274 (permalink)  
 
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I stated earlier in a post I didn't think it was an ideological war against staff.

I think I was wrong.

The tragedy is these morons and business failures who, by the grace of god, managed to get their hands on solid gold, did not recognise it as such.

I actually think they know they are doing the world a favour.

I just get more and more depressed about Qantas.

I can't explain in words how proud I was to first wear the uniform. Now it sits unloved in the wardrobe and if I never saw it again I don't think it would bother me.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 07:50
  #3275 (permalink)  
 
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Can't wait to see the bonus grab by the clown up top on sacking 3000 long tern loyal staff. Then the senate enquiry that puts them behind bars.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:07
  #3276 (permalink)  
 
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Then the senate enquiry that puts them behind bars.
You are joking ofcourse. I think you will find that as he says, Clifford and Joyce will be there in 3 years (assuming there is 3 years left) because the senate inquiry will find nothing because that would involve pollies admitting they were wrong to do nothing. A pollie admit he was wrong, you cant be serious.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:16
  #3277 (permalink)  
 
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Angry

You are joking ofcourse. I think you will find that as he says, Clifford and Joyce will be there in 3 years (assuming there is 3 years left) because the senate inquiry will find nothing because that would involve pollies admitting they were wrong to do nothing. A pollie admit he was wrong, you cant be serious.
You are right. It will be a farce. A grandstanding opportunity for Pollies, the really pertinent questions won't be asked or answered and the sad comedy will roll on!
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:41
  #3278 (permalink)  
 
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Danger

I work for virgin also, but I seriously hope Joyce and Clifford expire ASAP, not only for my mates that work there, but for the sake of a sustainable industry..time for these guys to hug it out and get back to making money for their shareholders, we are fast becoming a joke.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:41
  #3279 (permalink)  
 
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You are right. It will be a farce. A grandstanding opportunity for Pollies, the really pertinent questions won't be asked or answered and the sad comedy will roll on!
Confirmed by taking a look at the Senate and Truss threads.
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Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:54
  #3280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney, NSW,Australia
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All is Lost.

On the subject of a Union busting agenda, give some thought to
the following comments.


"In a meeting in February 2011, I offered Alan Joyce a two-year pay freeze and a commitment to rewrite our certified agreement.

This was rejected out of hand. It is an ideological war and Mr Joyce needed the pilots to be able to lock the staff out in 2011 at a cost of over $200 million. There is nothing wrong with industrial relations in Australia but there is a lot wrong with management"
ex AIPA President Barry Jackson AFR Friday 7 March14

And from today's AFR, Weekend 8-9 March 14.

"We have got to make sure we have more flexible working arrangements.
I think for instance the pilots' agreement is hundreds of pages long.
War and Peace wasn't that long, I don't think."
Qantas Chairman Leigh Clifford.

Ah, help me here Leigh, what was Barry offering you and Alan THREE years ago.

Last edited by Jackneville; 8th Mar 2014 at 10:46.
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