MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Skipness 1E: it would seem to me that the only airline CEO without a wife or girlfriend is also the only airline CEO whose share price has collapsed by 80% in the last 5 years. It _could_ be a complete co-incidence, but the figure is rather startling! Although, it could also be a height thing come to think of it.
There needs to be one solid question about what leasing companies get the big bucks from Qf - and their ownership structure needs to be seriously investigated. A very difficult proposition.
What are the penalties in all this for actually fibbing, as opposed to an outright lie? 'My understanding...', 'I am led to believe....' etcetc
There needs to be one solid question about what leasing companies get the big bucks from Qf - and their ownership structure needs to be seriously investigated. A very difficult proposition.
What are the penalties in all this for actually fibbing, as opposed to an outright lie? 'My understanding...', 'I am led to believe....' etcetc
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And; the questions about leasing companies goes right back to the days of Australian Airlines (circa TAA); what was leased?
Who were the leasing companies?
Most definitley, who were the owners/shareholders of the leasing companies?
It could be more than well suggested (rumoured?) where perhaps it is no coincidence owners/shreholders of said leasing companies may well have been senior executives (very) of the companies leasing the equipment many of whom graduated from Australian Airlines to management roles in Qantas.
Who, what and which is leased today where from and who by?
Rose Leasing based on some abscure South Pacific atoll leasing engines for Austrlian Boeing 737s?
Who were the leasing companies?
Most definitley, who were the owners/shareholders of the leasing companies?
It could be more than well suggested (rumoured?) where perhaps it is no coincidence owners/shreholders of said leasing companies may well have been senior executives (very) of the companies leasing the equipment many of whom graduated from Australian Airlines to management roles in Qantas.
Who, what and which is leased today where from and who by?
Rose Leasing based on some abscure South Pacific atoll leasing engines for Austrlian Boeing 737s?
Last edited by Dark Knight; 9th Mar 2014 at 04:44. Reason: speelliing...
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Skipness 1E please don't take this the wrong way. My observation with these kind of "empires" is that the blind and unfailing loyalty they offer their masters combined with their dogged and capable persistence to achieve their master's goals at any cost and regardless of right or wrong is what causes this problem.
It is healthier in a large corporation for number 1 to be afraid of number 2 and 3 going after his/her job, but that is just not happening at Qantas. Corporate boardroom discussions should be brutal in addressing any problems and failures, and if you can't deliver then out you go. Qantas's corporate governance is a shambolic parade of useless 'yes' men and women, and look where that approach has taken the company.
It is healthier in a large corporation for number 1 to be afraid of number 2 and 3 going after his/her job, but that is just not happening at Qantas. Corporate boardroom discussions should be brutal in addressing any problems and failures, and if you can't deliver then out you go. Qantas's corporate governance is a shambolic parade of useless 'yes' men and women, and look where that approach has taken the company.
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There needs to be one solid question about what leasing companies get the big bucks from Qf - and their ownership structure needs to be seriously investigated. A very difficult proposition.
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The film regarding the last days of the Reich - Downfall, springs to mind!!!
If the Generals cannot understand the folly of their strategy the future is very bleak. I understand from OTP figures, NPS etc that the staff are delivering, but..... The strategy is flawed... The CEO and Board need a very good look at themselves.
If the Generals cannot understand the folly of their strategy the future is very bleak. I understand from OTP figures, NPS etc that the staff are delivering, but..... The strategy is flawed... The CEO and Board need a very good look at themselves.
DCH63:
Your analogy is entirely accurate. BGA and the board are stuck in the Fuhrer Bunker making majestically grandiose sweeps of their hands directing imaginary Army Divisions across Europe when the reality is Russian infantry are firing on the Reichstag.
And they are similarly deluded. The management ethos is the same, the paranoia is the same and the total disconnect between Dear Leader and 'The Troops' is as pronounced. Add to that the simply laughable Engagement Survey results increase (when apparently their bonuses depend on same) and you get a workforce that now is openly despising its management.
Questions for Fed Sec:
Is it true the bonus/pay structure you enjoy is based at least in part by positive Engagement Survey results?
If you have demonstrably destroyed shareholder value in this company, then what penalty have you paid or would you think is reasonable? Or expressed otherwise, If one person removed/stole $xx BILLiON/million from the company (for his/her own benefit?) then how would you treat them as an employee?
Your analogy is entirely accurate. BGA and the board are stuck in the Fuhrer Bunker making majestically grandiose sweeps of their hands directing imaginary Army Divisions across Europe when the reality is Russian infantry are firing on the Reichstag.
And they are similarly deluded. The management ethos is the same, the paranoia is the same and the total disconnect between Dear Leader and 'The Troops' is as pronounced. Add to that the simply laughable Engagement Survey results increase (when apparently their bonuses depend on same) and you get a workforce that now is openly despising its management.
Questions for Fed Sec:
Is it true the bonus/pay structure you enjoy is based at least in part by positive Engagement Survey results?
If you have demonstrably destroyed shareholder value in this company, then what penalty have you paid or would you think is reasonable? Or expressed otherwise, If one person removed/stole $xx BILLiON/million from the company (for his/her own benefit?) then how would you treat them as an employee?
Nice one AR. Like the Dwayne angle.
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Angryrat.
Add to that list:
1. When a Jetstar Passenger was denied boarding on a full Jetstar flight due overselling. When the passenger was paid cash for denied boarding. Who paid that cash? Qantas or Jetstar.
2. Were you instructed not to bill Jetstar for services offered by Qantas that totalled $100,000 or less for any given event?
MC
Add to that list:
1. When a Jetstar Passenger was denied boarding on a full Jetstar flight due overselling. When the passenger was paid cash for denied boarding. Who paid that cash? Qantas or Jetstar.
2. Were you instructed not to bill Jetstar for services offered by Qantas that totalled $100,000 or less for any given event?
MC
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 9th Mar 2014 at 10:07.
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Don't forget, who pays for paxing/positioning Thai and sin based Jq cabin crew in biz class on qantas? Happens regularly. Not to mention Jq tech crew paxing 1st class on Qf to operate ex sin on the 330's when the 380 flew there. Guess they back to biz class too now due aircraft downgrade?
Does Qantas pay (or has it ever paid) Jetstar a certain standard amount to carry pax or freight on certain services, irrespective of whether any such pax or freight is actually carried?
Given that the latest 'transformation announcements' only involve further shrinkage and cutbacks, with no means of increasing revenue, how do you expect QF to prosper, or even survive?
Given that the latest 'transformation announcements' only involve further shrinkage and cutbacks, with no means of increasing revenue, how do you expect QF to prosper, or even survive?
Explain the KPI targets for all executives and further explain the now apparent unintended consequences for the group of such narrowly defined benchmarks. Explain how internecine competition benefits the group as a whole. With examples.
Benchmark the number of supervisory/management/executive staff per employee against the world's best practise for all airlines and all similar sized enterprises.
List every external factor that you have blamed for your dismal performance and explain the effects each has had on your competitors.
Disclose the delivery schedule, lease costs, storage costs and ancillaries for every group aircraft order. From 2012 to 2017
Disclose the current staff on retainer, payroll, per diem, or otherwise compensated for each of the JQ franchises. Describe how each of the group's 110+ subsidiary companies interacts, with revenue costings, with every other unit in the group.
Outline your understanding of the Bushido code and disclose your timetable for embracing same.
Benchmark the number of supervisory/management/executive staff per employee against the world's best practise for all airlines and all similar sized enterprises.
List every external factor that you have blamed for your dismal performance and explain the effects each has had on your competitors.
Disclose the delivery schedule, lease costs, storage costs and ancillaries for every group aircraft order. From 2012 to 2017
Disclose the current staff on retainer, payroll, per diem, or otherwise compensated for each of the JQ franchises. Describe how each of the group's 110+ subsidiary companies interacts, with revenue costings, with every other unit in the group.
Outline your understanding of the Bushido code and disclose your timetable for embracing same.
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simon001
Qantas's Future?
Competing as an international carrier, is Qantas doomed to failure principally due to its labour costs?
It is clear that the CEO isn't very popular on this forum right now. I imagine some people might suggest that if Qantas is failing or even doomed, that the CEO is the principal reason.
Maybe so. That aside, two years ago, a PPRuNe member pointed towards labor costs a big issue, even though at the time the focus of the posting was on the high AUD:
http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...about-aud.html
The AUD has dropped since then, but the average employee cost of Qantas is still significantly higher than its international rivals.
How can Qantas compete in this situation? With the knowledge that your airline's labour costs were significantly higher than that of your rivals, if you had the power to make changes, what would you do?
I read a lot of criticism in PPRuNe on how the airline is being run today, but most people would agree that running an airline is a tough job at the best of times. Qantas's situation is serious. What do PPruners suggest and how will this offset a fundamental labour cost problem?
Competing as an international carrier, is Qantas doomed to failure principally due to its labour costs?
It is clear that the CEO isn't very popular on this forum right now. I imagine some people might suggest that if Qantas is failing or even doomed, that the CEO is the principal reason.
Maybe so. That aside, two years ago, a PPRuNe member pointed towards labor costs a big issue, even though at the time the focus of the posting was on the high AUD:
http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...about-aud.html
The AUD has dropped since then, but the average employee cost of Qantas is still significantly higher than its international rivals.
How can Qantas compete in this situation? With the knowledge that your airline's labour costs were significantly higher than that of your rivals, if you had the power to make changes, what would you do?
I read a lot of criticism in PPRuNe on how the airline is being run today, but most people would agree that running an airline is a tough job at the best of times. Qantas's situation is serious. What do PPruners suggest and how will this offset a fundamental labour cost problem?
A quick comparison of just two first-world airlines chosen at random, quite different in geography and size, one smaller and one larger than QF Group, but both have a mixed fleet ranging from widebodies to small regionals similar to Qantas:
Air NZ 105 A/C, 11,000 employees: 105 staff per airframe.
AA (including American Eagle) 851 A/C, 89,900 staff: 105 staff per airframe (after Chapter 11 ructions & mass sackings).
Now for Virgin Australia including Tiger: 107 A/C, 8773 employees: 81 staff per airframe. Breaking it down:
- VA: 94 A/C, 8,423 staff: 89 employees per A/C (within cooee of QF, AA & NZ)
- Tiger: 13 A/C, 350 staff: 27 employees per A/C (but how much work is done by VA Tigerair in SIN?)
Compare this to Qantas: Group-wide, QF has 33,000 staff for 317 A/C: 104 staff per airframe. It looks comparable to AA & ANZ but let's break it down:
Jetstar Group has 7,000 staff for 116 A/C: 60 staff per airframe.
Qantas Group (everything but JQ): 26,000 staff for 201 A/C: 129 staff per airframe.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics, but the numbers speak for themselves. Clearly the red-tail half of the airline has too many staff compared to AA, NZ & VA. But I'll risk drawing a long bow and suggest that JQ has too few staff per airframe compared to "real" airlines of similar size, namely VA. It adds weight to the suspicions of many that:
1. JQ Group simply could not operate without the efforts of QF mainline staff
2. QF Group is over-complicated and over-managed
1. JQ Group simply could not operate without the efforts of QF mainline staff
2. QF Group is over-complicated and over-managed
2. QF Group is over-complicated and over-managed
4. This is an over simplistic way of looking at it
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5. Larger aircraft require more staff per airframe
Whilst it's hard to argue that Qantas is over staffed and over managed, this is just one part of a range of issues facing the group.
Qantas management has lost focus on what Qantas is.
Qantas management is reactionary.
Qantas management has lost its innovation.
Qantas management does not have support of employees.
Qantas has outdated employee contracts and does not know how to work with unions to make them more efficient.
Whilst it's hard to argue that Qantas is over staffed and over managed, this is just one part of a range of issues facing the group.
Qantas management has lost focus on what Qantas is.
Qantas management is reactionary.
Qantas management has lost its innovation.
Qantas management does not have support of employees.
Qantas has outdated employee contracts and does not know how to work with unions to make them more efficient.
What -438 said.
The old industry-wide yardstick in the 90's was:
100 employees per narrowbody
160 per widebody.
Since then some practices and processes have improved, some activities contracted out, so the targets may a little lower now. Certainly the supervision ratio is ludicrous.
I asked an executive friend at Telstra about their ratio. He said that their alarm bells go off at any less than 9 staff per supervisor/manager/executive. So by that measure QF is carrying a hell of a lot of parasite drag.
And not a lot of it high quality parasites either
The old industry-wide yardstick in the 90's was:
100 employees per narrowbody
160 per widebody.
Since then some practices and processes have improved, some activities contracted out, so the targets may a little lower now. Certainly the supervision ratio is ludicrous.
I asked an executive friend at Telstra about their ratio. He said that their alarm bells go off at any less than 9 staff per supervisor/manager/executive. So by that measure QF is carrying a hell of a lot of parasite drag.
And not a lot of it high quality parasites either
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Perhaps a better metric would be number of staff per ASK (Available Seat Kilometres) to take into account size of aircraft and sector lengths flown?
Better still, salaries as a percentage of ASKs? Worlds Best Practice that metric against Emirates, BA, United, VA, Etihad, etc...?
Better still, salaries as a percentage of ASKs? Worlds Best Practice that metric against Emirates, BA, United, VA, Etihad, etc...?
We should be comparing ourselves with equivalent airlines which originate from countries which have similar standards of living, not some third world airlines which fly in there labour from even poorer states. The Americans but more equally the Europeans and Singapore but never the ME carriers. Hired foreign help is not a fair comparison and we have to stop thinking that they are the benchmark. Perhaps our Government should be raising some serious human rights abuses that are known to occur in the UAE but then who are we to talk when we have the disgrace which is Mannus Island.
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We should be comparing ourselves with equivalent airlines which originate from countries which have similar standards of living, not some third world airlines which fly in there labour from even poorer states. The Americans but more equally the Europeans and Singapore but never the ME carriers. Hired foreign help is not a fair comparison and we have to stop thinking that they are the benchmark. Perhaps our Government should be raising some serious human rights abuses that are known to occur in the UAE but then who are we to talk when we have the disgrace which is Mannus Island.