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When is the next cull at QF Engineering?

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When is the next cull at QF Engineering?

Old 8th Nov 2013, 12:05
  #181 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by Bagus
Time for all aircraft workers to join one union-ALAEA.
Originally Posted by BrissySparkyCoit View Post
Bagus, most AME's that actually work on the aircraft want to join the ALAEA. Pretty much the only ones that don't are reps of the AME unions. Unfortunately, those unions made sure that the ALAEA cannot legally sign up AME's. They have shafted their own members. Bloody disgrace.
Boy fellas, is it the right time to start this one up again?

Agree with others that the fate of Ava has been sealed for some tone. What the 'review' probably revealed was the timing and what the prospects of redeployment are of the 59 odd direct QF employees. The Fair Work Act says redeployment must first be considered and utilised before a genuine redundancy can occur.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 15:34
  #182 (permalink)  
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It is inconceivable that the Avalon closure was not decided upon many months ago. Airlines plan maintenance years in advance. This was not a sudden decision.
I totally agree Sunfish, I believe it was part of the plan way back in early 2011.

For me, about 0.47s in on this video (below) the fearless foreign leader gave the game away with
" there is no off-shoring of jobs"
(and he said this many times after.)

From that day on I believed off-shoring was a big part of the Q board's plans, they just didn't know how they were going to do it... both Labor & The Liberals at the time did not pick up on where Q management was heading (or chose to remain silent) other than Nick X. Both major political parties allowed the plans to go unchallenged, they paid a lot of lip service but slowly as time went on Q management bit by bit slashed jobs, they haven't announced anything positive since Joyce was installed.

I've got this mate, he's of Asian descent. He's got a broader Australian accent than I have, likes a beer. Australian 'culture' is as important to him as his Chinese culture. The sad day for Australian aviation was when a non-Australian was put in charge of this outfit. He's not Australian, never will be. His culture is scabby low cost garbage.
I agree Jack, I'm afraid we Aussies have lost the "Aussie spirit" that we were all once proud of, because we have allowed the "global corporate Wallies" in to run our once Australian ran business's. I think there are many other examples of this, one that comes to mind is when Rio Tinto based itself in London and the foreign CEO at the time lost millions with dumb deals in Africa etc. We don't look after our own anymore. Rinehart urges Rio Tinto to move to Perth

Jack, I also have many friends who are Asian decent who agree with me, some of them say stuff like Australia has lost it's way because its business leaders (a lot now foreign) are more interested in pleasing "foreign institutional investment houses" for short term personal gain, Australia comes second. We are been sold out slowly, brick by brick, my feeling anyway.

Those bozo's in Canberra on both sides of the political fence seem to think this business direction for our country is also the way forward, just look at how the the big four Banks are allowed to also flourish, again a lot of political lip service spent at times but the banks continue to squeeze job's for Aussies whilst they print money for themselves.

Probably more than ever in Australia's history "the political talent pool" we have in Canberra is at an all time low on both sides of politics. I can't think of one stand out politician who can see the wood's through the trees.

I found it odd today that AJ left the announcement for LS to make, he didn't even have the guts to do it himself, says a lot about Joyce to me as a man, he failed to front up, he was busy talking about Aer Lingus Qantas chief Joyce 'not surprised' at interest in Aer Lingus - Independent.ie

Sadly the Avalon announcement today will not gain a lot of attention from the mainstream media, they too are slowly been culled, many journalists have also lost their jobs this year, the media industry must be feeling it as much as the Qantas staff do. It's a sad state for our nation.

I think the best summary of events was posted by Ben Sandilands today, says it all. Qantas closure at Avalon raises harsh questions | Plane Talking

I have great respect for you all at Avalon, I feel for you guys, if I had three wishes one of them would be reserved for you guys.

Good luck to all of you...

Last edited by TIMA9X; 10th Nov 2013 at 11:05.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 16:37
  #183 (permalink)  
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I just know I will be sitting here in the next few months/years, reading about the shut down of Qantas, a.k.a Ansett, and AJ will have bolted to his castle in Ireland, and about to commence a senior position with Ryanair/Aer Lingus.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 18:07
  #184 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 201
If the 747 fleet is disappearing, what is replacing those seats? Surely there are other newer aircraft also requiring checks and heavy maintenance? The press statement glibly says that newer planes need less maintenance but that is surely not the case with periodic inspections? Or is Qantas a shrinking airline?

(I have not waded through the thread so apologies if this has already been answered - thank you)
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 18:21
  #185 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Thanks ampclamp you are so right on the money.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 18:28
  #186 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
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BrissySparkyColt I do not know your area but at Avalon anyone can join ALAEA and have.

Just a note we have quite a few Asian Workers at Avalon and they do a good job, not pressured as much as in Asian Countries to just get em out.

Last edited by Flying Trades Person; 8th Nov 2013 at 18:39.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 19:00
  #187 (permalink)  
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i am not a pilot but a comment on the question and answer interview I heard on 774 Friday afternoon with the Qantas manager.

I don't think he came across with his answers that well, especially when
asked a direct question about whether he cared about the Avalon employees.

He didn't say "yes, of course, but", he went into a typical Politician type answer and I think lost people at that point.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 20:00
  #188 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Corporate reception including the switchboard staff have just been told they are gone apparently. Jobs outsourced to Accor. Think about that, these staff do not earn much and are part timers for many. So what does QF save.

Believe the Accor are also running the QF Clubs in SYD now as well.

Point is, if they are looking at these small numbers, who's pay levels are not so high, surely Finance could be moved to India, Marketing just sold off completely to a large marketing mob? Crew scheduling given to a transport or bus company, or a state rail?

Was told by a mate who is in HQ that the place is just known as Air India now anyway.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 20:54
  #189 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NSW
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From a manager high up, next on the chopping block is Sydney, Ops Managers for all areas to cull the numbers right back. Anyone who doesn't follow the Management vision while be given the bullet!
Stage One No more Supervisors for SIT or Base Servicing...modeled of the Domestic Model but Ops Managers for every shift to streamline the manpower down...Cat A's pushed into the front line...To all those guys going for Ops Managers positions, good luck to you but don't expect any respect or credibility when your shafting people who have carried you for so many years..
2014 will see the biggest slashing in QF Engineering, managements decision to enforce total control over any union or group that challenges any of their decisions..
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 22:58
  #190 (permalink)  
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I think there are many other examples of this, one that comes to mind is when Rio Tinto based itself in London and the foreign CEO at the time lost millions with dumb deals in Africa etc. We don't look after our own anymore. Rinehart urges Rio Tinto to move to Perth
Possibly off-topic, but on the subject of foreign ownership--Rio Tinto has always been London based, since they were incorporated in the late 1800's. Head office has always been in London--that said, there was a push to have them move headquarters to Perth, to more accurately reflect the where they actually make their profits. They are global, but currently, most of their global profits come from RTIO, in WA. Tom Albanese led them into a lot of debt with bad purchases, Sam Walsh, the aussie, former chief of RTIO, is now leading them out of it.

And this is where I get back strictly on-topic. This highly profitable business is , and has been since Sam Walsh took over, looking hard at costs and one of these costs is the people we employ. It started with a shock culling of senior Pilbara management,above mine operations, a whole layer removed. Then it started at site level. Mostly fly-in day, a call into the office, pre-prepared redundancy package presented, thank you for your service , back on a plane that afternoon.And the redundancies are quite generous, well over what is specified in our individual agreements. But none of this was on the shop floor level--all management , supervisory, and admin positions. Which is doubtless where Qantas should REALLY be trying to improve the bottom line. I repeat, no-one who actually wields a tool or drives a machine has gone. And it has been purely on position, length of service or ability really counts for nought; it is just the position. None of this awful bloody trench warfare they have been inflicting on you, rumours, prolonged "negotiations", the death of a thousand cuts.

And now my department, on our site, is up next for review. The depth of the cuts has been quite staggering, managers are still leaving; mine is a statutory compliance position, required under two separate pieces of legislation, but I really get the feeling, that, sometime soon, I won't be getting on the F-truck to WAN anymore. So I feel I am facing redundacy too, but at least my skills are transferable, and I am of the the age where I could maybe sit back a bit, consider my future.

But there are doubtless many who have mortgages and growing children, who fear the future. You may have to look outside your industry--I was in an industry I loved for thirty years, couldn't conceive of doing anything else, and when the crunch came , it was dark times and dark thoughts all around. But I pushed into something else, struggled initially, got on my feet, and I'm still standing and prospering. If I do get the tap some time soon, it'll just be another door to open.

Your union, in the end, was unable to affect the outcome, but certainly not through lack of trying. If there was a union, unaffiliated to any political party, in the industry I am in , who conducted their affairs the way the ALAEA has worked for their members, I'd join it.

Good luck to all of you, and this isn't the end of the world. We can only hope that karma catches up with Joyce et al.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 00:37
  #191 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
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I am of your vintage and spent all my working life on the engineering "rockpile" and absolutely loved every minute of it in rain, hail or shine. But what is happening now to OUR icon across the board is criminal. Take heart that every engineer out there, no matter what happens, will perform as professionally as would be expected and that they will NEVER lower their standards to that of current management!!! (sorry, does that mean I'm engaged?...NOT)


You are correct with what you say, but if there are defects (any type of defect, no matter how trivial) written up in the techlog on arrival, you will see a LAME.
Food for thought.....Up2u now.....

On a sad note, my heart goes out to all the guys and gals at Avalon, best of luck for whatever the future holds for you.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 02:08
  #192 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
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The airline said it would look at moving some maintenance work done at Avalon to other Australian facilities, or to Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, Britain or the US.

Friday's cuts pushed the number of jobs Qantas has axed from engineering operations in the past 18 months above 1500.

No wonder unemployment in this country creeping higher.
Qantas must be doing good job sacking but share price not going higher maybe 15000 will make a difference.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 03:20
  #193 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
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The airline said it would look at moving some maintenance work done at Avalon to other Australian facilities, or to Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, Britain or the US.
Talk about clouding the arrangements, those are the choices really.

Rumour has it that most aircraft on domestic use mainly B737s will still be done in BNE, but ALL the larger aircraft used on international routes will be going to....... NONE of those places, but to Emirates in Dubai.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 03:53
  #194 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by aeromedic
The largest Qantas shareholder—with 22.72 percent of the company—is J. P. Morgan Nominees Australia, a division of the global J. P. Morgan investment house.
The second largest is HSBC Custody Nominees with 18.91 percent. Next is National Nominees with an 18.26 percent stake. The fourth largest is Citicorp Nominees.
These four investment funds are also among the largest shareholders of Australia’s four major banks, the Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank, Westpac Bank and ANZ Bank, which in turn are large shareholders of the investment funds.
One hopes you learn other stuff, particularly aviation safety related things, more quickly than you learn your misconception about shareholdings is incorrect. I've posted about this at least half a dozen times.

Look up the definition of "nominee".

It's not terribly hard

Refer #2

Those companies CANNOT vote those shares. Only the true beneficial owners can instruct them. And that is the superannuation funds who own the shares but for reasons of probity and member security must keep them with a nominee company.

And just in case that hasn't sunk in yet...

Nominee company

It would really help your argument if you got your obvious claims correct. Failing to do that brings your entire credibility into question, particularly when you have been given the correct information repeatedly.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 05:41
  #195 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Sacked from Avalon my guess you will be even more pissed off when you see the news tonight as Qantas has sent an Ambassador and group to Seattle to rub gum leaves over a new Aircraft . No cost cutting here .
Qantas unveils aircraft's Aboriginal art - The West Australian

Last edited by Jethro Gibbs; 9th Nov 2013 at 06:34.
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 07:20
  #196 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 207
Need blessing now after sacking 300
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 15:49
  #197 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Aus
Posts: 33
Anyone have any idea as to to what relocation possibilities exist in the QF network ?
Will options such as Bris Heavy be offered to Forstaff people who want to move ?
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 21:29
  #198 (permalink)  
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Arrggh - Steam on.

Capt QM # 203 - I am of your vintage and spent all my working life on the engineering "rockpile" and absolutely loved every minute of it in rain, hail or shine. But what is happening now to OUR icon across the board is criminal. Take heart that every engineer out there, no matter what happens, will perform as professionally as would be expected and that they will NEVER lower their standards to that of current management
It troubles me that the fetish for slash and burn tactics, selfish quick KPI driven short term gains and complete loss of 'understanding' will, in the long term need to be reversed. The failure to see that in the 'past' it was always, for nearly all a labour of love and a team effort that built our great airlines. The stuff of legend now; ginger beers at 3 am o'clock struggling to turn a sick airframe around, so it would be ready for the next service; front of house boys and girls soothing passengers during the interminable wait for transport; pilots in the back room, sweating over the fuel and time figures to ensure that the service arrived 'on time'. The entire cast and crew toddling off home with a feeling of well job well done and looking forward to work the next day. The destruction of that team spirit, the willingness to work a bit harder or to do the job better is counter productive and detrimental to the hallowed bottom line. Airlines cannot be run as a toilet roll factory as one wit remarked. Although this will not come back to haunt those who disappear to live in little ivory castles, far removed from the misery of 300 Christmas day parties, where the shadow of uncertainty is an unwelcome guest.

Big Q may well have been a bit of a sheltered workshop at one time, but had the realities of modern business been anticipated as they were forecast and revealed, adopted as they were happening, had been managed correctly, through foresight and acumen; perhaps, just maybe, it would have only been 30 VR rather than 300 gone - to improve the very sick 'bottom line', not to mention obscene bonuses.

It will not ease my mind when a small, previously unremarkable snag appears. Now, must I suspect the integrity of the whole system?; has some lazy, useless, unsupervised bugger clipped a wire with a staple?, what else is compromised ?. Do I land at the nearest suitable and relax; or can I with some surety rely on the integrity of the maintenance. Legally serviceable v operational integrity; "Sorry folks, my obligation ends at the next suitable as I am no longer able to rely on our quality, company controlled maintenance organisation". And anyway, what is wrong with an all expenses paid weekend in Sri Lanka ?, I'd like to know.

This little Sunday rant may seem a bit esoteric, but if the essentials, safety, service, integrity, reliability, team effort; the things that made great airlines are removed, what's left. The bloody bean counters and the dregs of legal services? – not enough to run an air service, not by a bloody long shot. Selah.

Sorry guys, steam off. Back to my knitting. (only slightly embarrassed).....
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 03:46
  #199 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
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@ Kharon.

Yes it seems a race to the bottom with Qf and their tactics. Any idea what the master plan is? Probably they want to operate the airline only and outsource as much maintenance as possible along with other departments. Here in HK, CX have done something similar, the CX engineering department is not a patch on what it once was in size, HAECO being the main Maintenance provider. At any Cx outstations local terms are on offer only.

Its a crying shame that maintenance is being treated as a small necessity these days, where as you said bean counters straight from uni seem to have the most important value in the inverted pyramid.
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 08:44
  #200 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
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Just a question; Qantas performs all of its maintenance of all aircraft types in Australia except the A380.

Does Virgin complete all of its maintenance in Australia, or offshore?
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