Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing
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Preliminary Report released
The ATSB has released its preliminary investigation report.
On the morning of 18 June 2013, a Boeing 737 aircraft, registered VH-YIR and operated by Virgin Australia, was conducting a scheduled passenger service from Brisbane, Queensland to Adelaide, South Australia. On board were six crew members and 85 passengers.
On the same morning, another B737 aircraft, registered VH-VYK and operated by Qantas Airways, was conducting a scheduled passenger service from Sydney, New South Wales, to Adelaide. On board were six crew and 146 passengers.
Due to poor weather in Adelaide, both aircraft were forced to divert to an alternate airport (Mildura, Victoria). This airport was also affected by unforecast poor weather at the time of their arrival.
The ATSBs ongoing investigation will examine the:
provision of information to flight crews from Air traffic services (ATS)
ATS policies and procedures affecting the flights
provision by the operators of information to the respective flight crews
the basis for the sequencing of the aircraft landings at Mildura
Bureau of Meteorology meteorological services and products as they applied to these flights
accuracy of aviation meteorological products in Australia.
Investigation: AO-2013-100 - Weather related operational event involving B737s VH-YIR and VH-VYK at Mildura Airport, Victoria on 18 June 2013
On the morning of 18 June 2013, a Boeing 737 aircraft, registered VH-YIR and operated by Virgin Australia, was conducting a scheduled passenger service from Brisbane, Queensland to Adelaide, South Australia. On board were six crew members and 85 passengers.
On the same morning, another B737 aircraft, registered VH-VYK and operated by Qantas Airways, was conducting a scheduled passenger service from Sydney, New South Wales, to Adelaide. On board were six crew and 146 passengers.
Due to poor weather in Adelaide, both aircraft were forced to divert to an alternate airport (Mildura, Victoria). This airport was also affected by unforecast poor weather at the time of their arrival.
The ATSBs ongoing investigation will examine the:
provision of information to flight crews from Air traffic services (ATS)
ATS policies and procedures affecting the flights
provision by the operators of information to the respective flight crews
the basis for the sequencing of the aircraft landings at Mildura
Bureau of Meteorology meteorological services and products as they applied to these flights
accuracy of aviation meteorological products in Australia.
Investigation: AO-2013-100 - Weather related operational event involving B737s VH-YIR and VH-VYK at Mildura Airport, Victoria on 18 June 2013
Last edited by BPA; 18th Jul 2013 at 01:05.
At a few points while reading that prelim report I got chills. That is not a pleasant read!
Looks like the Virgin crew did everything right though. Hindsight would be wonderful but they did very well with what they were dealt.
Looks like the Virgin crew did everything right though. Hindsight would be wonderful but they did very well with what they were dealt.
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What if?
Just a "what if",
After reading the Prelim Report it occurred to me that this could have so easily ended in tears. If the first aircraft to land had, lets say, run off the side of the runway and become bogged causing the airport to be closed, what would the options have been for the second aircraft?
The thought gives me chills
After reading the Prelim Report it occurred to me that this could have so easily ended in tears. If the first aircraft to land had, lets say, run off the side of the runway and become bogged causing the airport to be closed, what would the options have been for the second aircraft?
The thought gives me chills
There was an approximate 45-minute delay in providing this information to the crew due to the operators sterile cockpit procedure,5 during which unnecessary ACARS messages were not transmitted to the aircraft.
I'm going to take a Bex and have a lie down after reading that. A pilot's worst nightmare...
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No ****e!
I think both the QF and VA crews managed their individual situations superbly under very trying circumstances.
Both aircraft safely on the ground.
What an absolute balls up of a situation with the weather forecasts and reports.
I think both the QF and VA crews managed their individual situations superbly under very trying circumstances.
Both aircraft safely on the ground.
What an absolute balls up of a situation with the weather forecasts and reports.
After reading that lot it made me sit upright in my chair here!
This whole situation revolves around the Wx forecast & it's interpretation. The outcome was good no argument there (handled well under lots of duress)but this is a good Eg of 'reading' the forecast well b4 you step into the machine.
Planing on arrival with 2.8T under those 'threatening' conditions would be ringing alarm bells for me, forget Co req's IE Min fuel the skipper can override all that if he sees fit.
Light winds, under the influence of a high pressure, cold temps with 1 deg split & early morning, lovely ingredients for Fog.
The not passing of vital info enroute (as '601' alluded to) as mentioned in the report is amazing! I'd like to think that that was a boo boo more than the norm.
We can all learn from these sorts of events so thanks to the crews for giving us a timely reminder in this ever increasing commercial pressured game called aviation
Wmk2
This whole situation revolves around the Wx forecast & it's interpretation. The outcome was good no argument there (handled well under lots of duress)but this is a good Eg of 'reading' the forecast well b4 you step into the machine.
Planing on arrival with 2.8T under those 'threatening' conditions would be ringing alarm bells for me, forget Co req's IE Min fuel the skipper can override all that if he sees fit.
Light winds, under the influence of a high pressure, cold temps with 1 deg split & early morning, lovely ingredients for Fog.
The not passing of vital info enroute (as '601' alluded to) as mentioned in the report is amazing! I'd like to think that that was a boo boo more than the norm.
We can all learn from these sorts of events so thanks to the crews for giving us a timely reminder in this ever increasing commercial pressured game called aviation
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 18th Jul 2013 at 08:39.
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So just trying to get my head around this.
The Qantas plane landed on first attempted flying below minimums with 2100 kg's in the tanks on rollout? Didn't do a go around just busted minimums first time?
Everyone is ok with this? This is normal. WTF?
The Qantas plane landed on first attempted flying below minimums with 2100 kg's in the tanks on rollout? Didn't do a go around just busted minimums first time?
Everyone is ok with this? This is normal. WTF?
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Originally Posted by S70IP
The Qantas plane landed on first attempted flying below minimums with 2100 kg's in the tanks on rollout? Didn't do a go around just busted minimums first time?
Everyone is ok with this? This is normal. WTF?
Everyone is ok with this? This is normal. WTF?
As they approached the airport from the southwest, the crew of VYK reported that there appeared to be low stratus cloud in the area, and that fog was on the ground to the north of the airport. As they continued towards way
point MIAEC, they heard the crew of an aircraft conduct a missed
approach , which they took as an indication that the conditions at Mildura were deteriorating rapidly.
point MIAEC, they heard the crew of an aircraft conduct a missed
approach , which they took as an indication that the conditions at Mildura were deteriorating rapidly.
What would have happened if they didn't bust the minima the first time, and had gone around and let the Virgin aircraft have a crack, miss out. You now have two aircraft still airborne, both having to do a true 0/0 non-precision approach. That may not have had a pleasant outcome.
There are many practical issues and alternative possibilities to consider if other course of action were taken. The main thing is neither of us was actually there, in that situation, and in truth, there are only a very small number of people who know what actually happened. It is very easy to be an armchair expert, with the perfect knowledge of hindsight.
Everyone is ok with this? No I'm not happy they ended up in this situation, but they appear to have managed in the best way they could. There appears to be many failures in the chain, but at the end of the day, both crews did a superb of getting their machines and passengers on the ground after ending up in a very tight spot.
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What gentleman the virgin crew were!
How polite of virgin to allow the qantas guys in first!
Is it it normal procedure to bust minima by 150' with close to 30 minutes spare fuel above fixed reserve? Surely that is not a fuel emergency! Some extremely embarrassing questions will surely ensue.
Also heard that the qantas guys fuelled up and departed, so push a real fuel emergency aircraft further down the sequence, bust minima with over an hour in tanks, fuel up and leave....... what sort of normal ops is that?
Awaiting comments!
Is it it normal procedure to bust minima by 150' with close to 30 minutes spare fuel above fixed reserve? Surely that is not a fuel emergency! Some extremely embarrassing questions will surely ensue.
Also heard that the qantas guys fuelled up and departed, so push a real fuel emergency aircraft further down the sequence, bust minima with over an hour in tanks, fuel up and leave....... what sort of normal ops is that?
Awaiting comments!
Last edited by gazumped; 18th Jul 2013 at 10:26.
The more I hear and read about this incident, the higher my levels of admiration for the VA crew climbs.
Very well done indeed.
I must agree, standing aside to allow QF first crack due to their reported low fuel state was very sporting indeed.
More so considering they landed with 30 mins above statutory reserves!
Very well done indeed.
I must agree, standing aside to allow QF first crack due to their reported low fuel state was very sporting indeed.
More so considering they landed with 30 mins above statutory reserves!
Nunc est bibendum
Also heard that the qantas guys fuelled up and departed, so push a real fuel emergency aircraft further down the sequence, bust minima with over an hour in tanks, fuel up and leave....... what sort of normal ops is that?
Lots of hearsay being thrown around on this thread from people on both sides. Most of those who know something about professional aviation are obvious by their contributions. Those who know very little of professional aviation likewise have demonstrated that by their contributions.
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"Having worked for years in Europe with Cat 3C approval flying in extreme conditions became a normal days work during winter."
"Indeed. But you have actually highlighted the point. Because those extreme conditions are not the norm here, it would be an inefficient use of funds to install and maintain that kind of kit at every capital city."
"Indeed. But you have actually highlighted the point. Because those extreme conditions are not the norm here, it would be an inefficient use of funds to install and maintain that kind of kit at every capital city."
I would think that if this incident had ended in loss of life the equation of efficient use of funds to install CAT III at capital cities may have been revised.
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Keg
No hearsay, read the report, virgin arrived in the circuit first, broke off attempt to do a visual, decided to manoeuvre for an Rnav, were heading for iaf when qantas appeared on the scene also headed for the same iaf, virgin gallantly allowed them to go first, after qantas said that they had a fuel shortage. Qantas landed with 2100 kg, after going 150 below the minima ( on the tape), virgin landed with 525 kg, after shooting two approaches, the first to locate the disposition of the runway at the minima, the second approach as conducted virtually to the ground, EGWPS "sink rate" prior to touch down, and a firm landing.
So I ask you who is the gentleman now!
So I ask you who is the gentleman now!
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The only hearsay was conditions were rapidly worsening in MIA and both aircraft were committed to that field as they didn't have enough fuel to divert. I would rather land with some viz than be committed to a zero zero landing, this is not about the rules, this is about getting an aircraft on the deck safely, sometimes the rules need to be thrown out...This is a good example of both crews doing what needed to be done... Simple...
If Virgin had not moved out of the way for Qantas, and gone straight in and landed off the first approach, I dare say they would probably have had 2000kgs remaining.
