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Qlink's future.

Old 15th May 2013, 21:39
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
Capt Claret, you guys should be getting a 38.5% pay rise, not getting excited about 38.5% expansion!
Hmmm Transition Layer, I'll have to think about that.

Think

Think

Think



Last time pilots went for such a pay rise was way back oh, in about '89. Some 1600 lost their jobs....

I think ....... I think I'll learn the lesson of history and respectfully decline your advice and just be happy with the 38.5% fleet expansion and the jobs security that it suggests.

Last edited by Capt Claret; 15th May 2013 at 21:41.
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Old 15th May 2013, 21:51
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Is anybody really surprised that the five additional 717s are going to Cobham? Of course they are going there. I don't know anybody at Eastern or Sunstate who thought they were going anywhere else. The interesting question for Eastern and Sunstate pilots is still what will happen next when the replacement for the 717 is found, which can't be too far off. Considering Cobham are now identified by the company as a specialist B717 operator, the only certainty is that nothing is certain!
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:00
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I would guess that the end of this decade would see the replacement of the 717. With so many "group" companies and third party contractors in the mix, it will be anyones guess where they go. Time to start thinking about how much your grandmother is really worth and how big that pineapple can get is before it's too much
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:08
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From a QF blog

"Qantas will shortly announce that, later this year, QantasLink will be introducing two-class B717s to their Cobham-operated jet fleet. The first of the smaller Business class equipped B717s will operate Sydney-Canberra, Brisbane-Canberra, and Melbourne-Canberra sectors."

Will the 717's suddenly become 787's.. ?

Mainline really is becoming an end of the line carrier in more ways than one.
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:12
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Official word is new base's being announced in the next couple of weeks.

Engineers around the traps apparently have been told 2 more to Brisbane which makes 5 there in total. 1 to Canberra and the last 2 are going to Sydney. So Sydney and Canberra are going to be the 2 new bases operating alongside mainline. As for a replacement anytime soon for the 717's. The last one to go to Brisbane came off the production line in 2005 so is relatively new so wont be replaced anytime soon.
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:25
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Smile

Considering Cobham are now identified by the company as a specialist B717 operator, the only certainty is that nothing is certain!
Not quite sure what that means? I remember they used to be predominantly a 'specialist' 146 operator on the Airlink contract, which changed to the B717 in fairly quick time

Clarrie, when does the contract with Cobham expire? I doubt QF would be silly enough to breach the contract before that date (if ever).

Even if EAA/SA do get some jet flying, it would be interesting to see how they crew the turboprop operation, considering the existing difficulties they have getting suitable pilots. I doubt that QF would tolerate any reduction in capability with that part of the business in order to kick off a new jet operation.

The old jet carrot has been dangling since before 1994 (when I joined EAA). The closest it got was our Southern brethren, and look how that turned out in the end

I wouldn't be going out and putting a deposit on a new Audi just yet. (Come to think of it, I wouldn't put a deposit on an Audi EVER)
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:31
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G'day Jarse,

I believe 2018 with a 2 year extension clause.

Given I've been hearing for close to 20 years that one shouldn't join NJS/Cobham because their days with QF are numbered, I wouldn't be too worried, AS LONG AS complacency doesn't set in. Also, given that the existing 717s are being refurbished to 125 seat capacity, I don't think they're heading off shore any time in the near future.
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:46
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Smile

Thanks Clarrie If I were at EAA/SA I wouldn't be holding my breath. That's not to say nothing will happen, but if anything does I wouldn't imagine it being of a large scale.....
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Old 16th May 2013, 04:42
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I've been also told senior check Capts at SSA are telling their pilots to leave if they want to fly a jet. That instills great confidence....
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Old 16th May 2013, 04:58
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Capt Claret,

The use of the 38.5% figure was more for effect than anything, as it's the number you used in your post. What I was trying to highlight was the pay disparity between yourselves and your competition on these new routes - i.e. the VA E-Jets.

Funnily enough, the figure is probably pretty close to that. What we've seen recently is QF management wanting to comparing our salaries to VA, and down the track you may well see VA management wanting to make comparisons to the Cobham 717 operation.

In the end no one wins and the race to the bottom carries on. I don't think anyone should be getting excited about that!
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:33
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The use of the 38.5% figure was more for effect than anything, as it's the number you used in your post. What I was trying to highlight was the pay disparity between yourselves and your competition on these new routes - i.e. the VA E-Jets.Funnily enough, the figure is probably pretty close to that
E170 Captains are on $214,000 base? Maybe I will apply thats not too bad.

Having to pay $30K+ for the endorsement is a hassle though, maybe I won't

Last edited by RENURPP; 16th May 2013 at 05:37.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:58
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So my figures are a little rubbery but my point remains the same. Why gloat about all this growth if you're doing it for less?
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Old 16th May 2013, 06:18
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I'm not gloating, a few guys are happy they have job security for a little longer.


I don't know what an E170 Captain for Virgin gets, quite honestly I couldn't care less. If they're receiving more than me, good on them. I wish them well.

Last edited by RENURPP; 17th May 2013 at 13:24.
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Old 16th May 2013, 06:37
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Ahh...no. No gloating from either SSA or EAA. The thread started with the ridiculous claim that we were going to get 787s. Then the discussion about the change of management alluding to possible equipment changes. I can't recall any SSA/EAA pilot gloat about NJS losing out - EVER. It there was, it certainly wasn't from me and certainly doesn't reflect the 99% of Dash drivers who wouldn't want to see ANY pilot out of work, let alone WISH for it. As to us working for anything 'just to get jets', I call bull. We have an agreed rate in each EBA which, compared to other operators of similar aircraft is market rate. So I totally reject your statement RENURPP.

Good to see the QF Group is finally upping the domestic product on some important govt routes. As to this 'opportunity' that the COO and CP for SSA/EAA in this latest news, lets just hope that an equal footing can be agreed on by all parties involved.

Rant over.

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Last edited by Fuel-Off; 16th May 2013 at 06:42.
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Old 16th May 2013, 07:00
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Let's not forget VA has recently aquired quite a few F100s from Skywest... what is to prevent them from also posting a few on the east coast.... then you will have VA pilots on F100... possibly competing on similar routes...and i'm sure their pay ain't nothing to gloat about either...

Last edited by aviator's_anonymous; 16th May 2013 at 07:01.
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:03
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Salary comparison at this point in time as per current or recently voted in EBAs. Ignoring any extras and lifestyle considerations etc etc.

Virgin Embrarer
Capt 165
Fo 91-107

Skywest F100
Capt 141-158
Fo 91-103

Cobham 717
Capt 155
Fo 85-101

All seems in a similar ballpark. Government takes most of it anyway.

Last edited by seconds; 16th May 2013 at 08:03.
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:42
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Good to see the QF Group is finally upping the domestic product on some important govt routes
admittedly there are some 400's running on those sectors, but seriously, you call the QF product on the 800 inferior to QLink 717????
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:56
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Majority of the CBR runs are by the 734s (apart from PER-CBR) aren't they? I'd say anything would be better than J class on that!!

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Old 16th May 2013, 10:59
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Thanks for the rough pay scales seconds. Looks like I was misinformed about Cobham's pay, obviously the TWU has done some good things there.

Yet again, mainline pilots watch more and more flying disappear, this time to a third party contractor outside "The Group". And apparently engagement was up in the last survey? Hahaha
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Old 16th May 2013, 11:06
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All I want to state is that Aviation in Australia as a whole is an absolute joke. We are all held ransom by our seniority systems and pay! If only we came to work for fun and didn't need to pay off the morgage.

I can understand why Denzel Washington was driven to flying upside down.

Opportunity is all we want and whereever you are at, aviation in this country with a population of 22 million isn't viable for a career here any more. So much for happy wife happy life. We are all frustrated, just leave it at work...or there will be no wife!

I just hope that for the qlink guys who work hard, all qlink guys....opportunity for them is provided! Qantas Fo's on the 737..mid 40's and with 5000 hours on type...I hear the frustration! It is managements pathetic excuses...(Dixon days) that now see the pain for you and the reason behind this move!

Continue to buy those lotto tickets my friends! Go to work for Fun!
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