QF Metals MOU for Cat A

[Ngineer]

Sooooo, what uniform will the next generation type 'A' guys be wearing??

[tgbgtgb]

Flourescent yellow.

Just like the rest of us in engineering soon....

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Some of the things you have said life sentence ar true but other most certainly are not. Thnx for voting no and I'll now respond to some of your comments.

The AME unions cop a lot of crap from LAMEs and the ALAEA for not having any
industrial backbone. Cast your mind back to the mid 2000's when QF had their
"wage freeze". There was only one aggreement in that period that had a pay rise
in it and it wasn't the ALAEA's.

This is correct and even worse, the ALAEA were the first union to sign on to the wage freeze. AME unions then also had different leaders who didn't hold back on supporting their members. The ALAEA was the companies favourtie union and members often felt ripped off. That's why a new team of leaders were elected in 2006.

The 2008 dispute did gain some positive EBA outcomes but it also indirectly
resulted in a lot of people losing customer payments when managment got some
payback.

2008 plus 2011 LAME disputes led directly to the same wages outcomes and benefits in AME Agreements. If we got less, AMEs would have got less. Customer contracts and paybacks weren't ditched because of any dispute. It started in 2007 when the Sin contract was dumped. It was a company wide policy from before 2008 to get rid of all contracts and it was not just Engineering because it was also Ramp and Customer Services.

If the words "no A licences for the life of this agreement" had been in your
determination I would not be here typing this dribble.

True. They weren't in the previous Agreement either. The aruments in the last few days of the "30 day negotiation period" were over the company trying to remove our "retain existing job functions". We kept that clause and it is still uncertain whether the airline will be able to take one of our functions - certification. Qantas have a few hurdles to jump over yet.

There has been stuff all training for AMEs anyway.

Cat A may reduce the opportunity for AMEs to be type trained but the
percentage of AMEs being trained over the last few years is so close to zero
that it we may not even notice the difference.

Why do you think there has been stuff all training in the last few years? I know why. It's because they knew that although the ALAEA would not allow Cat A licences unless there was a genuine career path (like we negotiated at Virgin), they had two soft unions that were already talking about your future. It was sold down the drain a long time ago.

The lack of recent training has been in anticipation of the day they signed off on the new Agreement with the AMWU and AWU. This was all pre-planned hence the pi$$ week support we had from the ACTU and Labor party when they intervened in the 2011 dispute. You may have noticed the then disability Minister Bill Shorten sitting front row at FWA. I spoke to him much over those days and he was there to make sure the governments intervention was approved and hence deliverence of cheaper LAMEs to Qantas, more members to the AME unions and more money for the Labor Party. That is why there has been little recent type training for AMEs.

[going down-under]

imperial shifter wrote:

and post your resume about until you get a licenced job somewhere else?

Wish it was that easy (although I became picky )

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Particularly ambitious AMEs because you're getting shafted at QANTAS and that's not going to change soon.

Mate, unless you sit in an office on a salary, you are getting shafted at Qantas.

[going down-under]

Imperial Shifter:

Got to get an interview first. Even with 2 licenses and a list of a/c still can't get thru. Any tips welcome thru PM please.

Anyway, back to topic: QF Metals MOU for Cat A

Sorry for the diversion

[Pterois Volitans]

We have been informed the that the AME EBA has been submitted to the FWA for approval, I has wondering if the ALAEA had any luck in blocking the submission due to the A license clause?

I have to agree with you "going down under" having Qantas on your cv now seems to be a disadvantage when applying for jobs inside the industry!!!!

[Ngineer]

QANTAS is a bit of a dirty word to some employers.

From the most sought after employees in the world to the least respected??

I don't think so. In fact I reckon I know the employer you are talking about, and I am hardly surprised.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

We have been informed the that the AME EBA has been submitted to the FWA for approval, I has wondering if the ALAEA had any luck in blocking the submission due to the A license clause?

We have applied to object to the Agreement certification. We didn't want to stand in the way of the AMEs getting their payrise though so some interim papers are being discussed so that the rise can go through and the only part in contention is that A licence bit.

[Propstop]

It is sad that skilled people are being thrown on the scrap heap by QF, and many are starting to realise that airline skills are generally not transferrable to GA.
I did my time at TAA and was one of the best apprenticeships around and taught me skills I have had to use in my career.
Moving from airlines into GA is truly another apprenticeship and a lot of SOE time to get the types and groups, but more importantly the mindset adjustment as you have to do a lot of lateral thinking and be very mindful of costs.
There are many employers in Australia and around the world who will not employ ex airline LAMES. Some of the places I have worked have in the past tried them and found them too inflexible and or impractical. I am not talking about companies run by Dodgy Bros Inc but respected aviation suppliers operating under EASA 145 and regular audits by major oil companies.
Make a case for the practical skills you possess and take a practical but totally legal attitude with hard work and you will prosper in GA and in some cases earn good money.
It was the best thing I have done was to leave the airlines and go into GA

[Long Bay Mauler]

Maybe it is also a case that Qantas engineers (AME & LAME) have always spoken up collectively, and this is not what many other employers like their good "slaves" to do.

And thats not just a Qantasism, thats more about being Australian, and not being subservient when push comes to shove, and many employers don't like those who are willing to stand up for themselves.

[Short_Circuit]

found them too inflexible and or impractical.

I was always taught "Near enough is not good enough" so I guess that makes me and my lot inflexible and or impractical for a reason.
Safety before Schedule etc etc etc..

[Ngineer]

It's the lingering private sector attitudes that many of the staff retain

I totally disagree. I have met with a few from the other airline that carry this opinion of Qf staff and it has obviously become a stigma born to them through personal reasons. Qf staff remain the most highly trained, skilled and flexible staff in their profession. I refuse to hear otherwise about guys who I see slog it out everyday above what any reasonable employer would expect them to do.

[AEROMEDIC]

[QUOTE][It is sad that skilled people are being thrown on the scrap heap by QF, and many are starting to realise that airline skills are generally not transferrable to GA.
I did my time at TAA and was one of the best apprenticeships around and taught me skills I have had to use in my career.
Moving from airlines into GA is truly another apprenticeship and a lot of SOE time to get the types and groups, but more importantly the mindset adjustment as you have to do a lot of lateral thinking and be very mindful of costs.
There are many employers in Australia and around the world who will not employ ex airline LAMES. Some of the places I have worked have in the past tried them and found them too inflexible and or impractical. I am not talking about companies run by Dodgy Bros Inc but respected aviation suppliers operating under EASA 145 and regular audits by major oil companies.
Make a case for the practical skills you possess and take a practical but totally legal attitude with hard work and you will prosper in GA and in some cases earn good money.
It was the best thing I have done was to leave the airlines and go into GA/QUOTE]

Good post Prop Stop,

In GA, an engineer has to engage in lateral thinking and get good at problem solving when they are on their own away from base with no coms except the aircraft radios. Compliance with the regs, maintenance manuals and procedures are paramount and the ability to fix things instead of being stranded sorts the good from the "not so good". No maintenance watch or spares overnight in the middle of nowhere.

[Talkwrench]

Next Move?

Noted that QF has applied for approval of their AME EBA9 Agreement by FWA.

Hearing scheduled for 1000, Thursday 20 June 2013.

ALAEA has stated it will oppose the approval of the agreement, basically due to the A licence content it contains.

This runs the risk of delaying the payrise and backpay for the AME's

ALAEA proposes the following solution (quoted from their notice):

We know that our objection might delay approval of the Agreement and we propose to offer to Qantas that we have no objections to the rest of the Agreement applying, so long as Qantas do not apply the A licence parts of the Agreement until the FWC makes a determination whether those can be approved or not.

This means the responsibility of getting the bulk of the Agreement approved and the wage rises and back pay getting paid as soon as possible will rest squarely with Qantas and the other unions accepting our proposal.

Anyone had any feedback from the AME unions or QF about their possible response to the above scenario?

Is Bill Shorten expected to be in attendance?

[Talkwrench]

Seen a notice from ALAEA circulating around about the AME EBA.

Looks like the AWU AMWU and CEPU Officials are not prepared to accept the ALAEAs offer to allow payrise and backpay to AMEs whilst the question on A licence coverage gets sorted out.

And can anyone tell me how an 'A' Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer suddenly became classified as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer with a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Allowance? How do they dream this stuff up?

Anyway, it appears to me that the AMEs need to tell their delos and officials to facilitate their payrise and backpay immediately. If that means pulling the A licence content out to do so, then so be it.

[rudderless1]

The company told the AME unions they must push the deal through complete, otherwise whats the point of lubricating the Ames.

[Pterois Volitans]

What happened to the AME's EBA

Does anyone know what is happing to the AME's EBA?? I think there was a meeting between the unions and the FWA in July but since then nothing. No communication from the company or the unions.

Anyone care to comment?

[rivet head]

AME EBA

Just heard around the traps, that hearing concluded and that FWA will deliberate for 2 weeks before handing down their decision.No official word from any of the unions.Metals unions must be a bit busy now that K.Dudd now back on the scene.

[Jethro Gibbs]

No communication from the company or the unions.
So whats new