QF Metals MOU for Cat A
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A Cat non-lame lames will only be used at terminals, none in SAM. AMEs will not receive A cat type training as they are too expensive and over qualified. Now that Qf has a foot in the door expect TWU drivers and ramp workers to receive A cat training and type training.
Well done on a great outcome.
Well done on a great outcome.
$100 week, well done AWU
Maintenance activities
authority in subcategory
A1, A2, A3 or A4
1 Minor scheduled line maintenance,
including a scheduled inspection or
check, up to and including a weekly
check:
(a) specified in the operator’s approved
aircraft maintenance program; or
(b) if not specified in the operator’s
approved aircraft maintenance
program that CASA considers is
equivalent to a weekly check and lists
in an AAC.
2 Minor maintenance, including a preflight, transit or overnight check, ground
handling, APU running, minimum
equipment list (MEL) implementation
as allowed by paragraph 3 (p) and
replenishment.
3 After appropriate task training for
issuing an aircraft certificate of release
to service as part of minor scheduled
line maintenance or simple defect
rectification:
(a)replacement of wheel assemblies; and
(b)replacement of wheel brake units; and
(c)replacement of emergency
equipment; and (d) replacement of
ovens, boilers and beverage makers;
and
(e)replacement of internal and external
lights, filaments and flash tubes; and
(f) replacement of windscreen wiper
blades; and
(g)replacement of passenger or cabin crew
seats, seat belts and harnesses; and
(h)closing of cowlings and refitment of
quick access inspection panels; and
(i) replacement of toilet system
components, other than gate valves;
and
(j) simple repair and replacement of
internal compartment doors and
placards, other than doors forming
part of a pressure structure; and
(k)simple repair and replacement of
overhead storage compartment doors
and cabin furnishing items; and
(l) replacement of static wicks; and
(m)replacement of aircraft main and
APU batteries; and
(n)replacement of in-flight entertainment
system components, other than
public address; and
(o)routine lubrication and replenishment
of system fluids and gases; and
(p)deactivation of subsystems and
aircraft components as permitted by
the operator’s MEL, if the task is one
that CASA considers is a simple task
and is listed in an AAC; and
(q)replacement of any other component
for an aircraft type if the task is one
that CASA considers is a simple task
and is listed in an AAC
authority in subcategory
A1, A2, A3 or A4
1 Minor scheduled line maintenance,
including a scheduled inspection or
check, up to and including a weekly
check:
(a) specified in the operator’s approved
aircraft maintenance program; or
(b) if not specified in the operator’s
approved aircraft maintenance
program that CASA considers is
equivalent to a weekly check and lists
in an AAC.
2 Minor maintenance, including a preflight, transit or overnight check, ground
handling, APU running, minimum
equipment list (MEL) implementation
as allowed by paragraph 3 (p) and
replenishment.
3 After appropriate task training for
issuing an aircraft certificate of release
to service as part of minor scheduled
line maintenance or simple defect
rectification:
(a)replacement of wheel assemblies; and
(b)replacement of wheel brake units; and
(c)replacement of emergency
equipment; and (d) replacement of
ovens, boilers and beverage makers;
and
(e)replacement of internal and external
lights, filaments and flash tubes; and
(f) replacement of windscreen wiper
blades; and
(g)replacement of passenger or cabin crew
seats, seat belts and harnesses; and
(h)closing of cowlings and refitment of
quick access inspection panels; and
(i) replacement of toilet system
components, other than gate valves;
and
(j) simple repair and replacement of
internal compartment doors and
placards, other than doors forming
part of a pressure structure; and
(k)simple repair and replacement of
overhead storage compartment doors
and cabin furnishing items; and
(l) replacement of static wicks; and
(m)replacement of aircraft main and
APU batteries; and
(n)replacement of in-flight entertainment
system components, other than
public address; and
(o)routine lubrication and replenishment
of system fluids and gases; and
(p)deactivation of subsystems and
aircraft components as permitted by
the operator’s MEL, if the task is one
that CASA considers is a simple task
and is listed in an AAC; and
(q)replacement of any other component
for an aircraft type if the task is one
that CASA considers is a simple task
and is listed in an AAC
lot of Ames in base very gung Ho about becoming acats
gung Ho
Just the mindset you need for aircraft maintenance eh?
Mix that up with a bit of the cynicism, regret and jealously that will no doubt flourish in the months and years ahead as they realise just how badly they were screwed over by their officials and we'll have a brand new generation of disengagement that Towers Watson will have to work out the root cause of.
But then again, they're all big boys and they were the ones doing the voting...
Or is my imagination running away with me?
Any alternative views of the future?
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Cat A in casa's book is called a licenced aircraft maintenance mechanic,
Not licenced ame, or a Lame, has a limited but adequate level of knowledge where as B1/2 has a complete level of knowledge
in all modules... blah blah... most ames i've seen would need extensive training and the ramp guys, etc would maybe never make the grade.
will the company push it's version of it when the MOD court case?? is put to bed.
Not licenced ame, or a Lame, has a limited but adequate level of knowledge where as B1/2 has a complete level of knowledge
in all modules... blah blah... most ames i've seen would need extensive training and the ramp guys, etc would maybe never make the grade.
will the company push it's version of it when the MOD court case?? is put to bed.
Most Ame's I have talked to (line environment) seem well grounded and are well aware what the CAT A licence represents and that the AWU have sold them down the river. From those who have told me ( I never ask) they voted NO in the EBA, as I did. (The figure I was shown - 85% voted in favour)
From where I stand, I certainly see no 'gung-ho' AME's excited about CAT A licencing. Why would they be???
From where I stand, I certainly see no 'gung-ho' AME's excited about CAT A licencing. Why would they be???
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The ALAEA will be challenging the Agreement in FWC if they try and lodge it. If I could draw a comparison -
A hospital has two Agreements. One for Nurses and one for doctors. The doctors think that the new people in their profession are not being paid enough and want an increase. To avoid negotiating with the doctors, the hospital creates a new allowance in the nurses Agreement so the new starters are nurses with a doctors allowance.
Same by putting LAMEs in the unlicenced Agreement.
A hospital has two Agreements. One for Nurses and one for doctors. The doctors think that the new people in their profession are not being paid enough and want an increase. To avoid negotiating with the doctors, the hospital creates a new allowance in the nurses Agreement so the new starters are nurses with a doctors allowance.
Same by putting LAMEs in the unlicenced Agreement.
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Steve,
Will Qf be able to grant A licenses to bag chuckers and other ramp staff under the current agreement with CASA. If so, which union would support these people?
Will Qf be able to grant A licenses to bag chuckers and other ramp staff under the current agreement with CASA. If so, which union would support these people?
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Yes the A licences can go to any person who has two years experience on aircraft. That is a bit vague but considering that Qantas run CASA, we are assuming they will rubber stamp things like Cabin cleaners holding experience to fix minor Cabin issues and baggage handlers to be able to do the inspections when doors are closed. A T/A who does greasing may qualify for the tasks he does and then start training to extend into other areas.
The whole arrangement has put this LAME allowance into the unlicenced Agreement. The TWU who traditionally cover the rampies may lose members as they get the Cat A's with the AME unions increasing numbers from both ends. The whole scam takes coverage from the two disliked unions (ALAEA and TWU) and hands them to two unions who each have less than 1% of their members in aviation.
The whole arrangement has put this LAME allowance into the unlicenced Agreement. The TWU who traditionally cover the rampies may lose members as they get the Cat A's with the AME unions increasing numbers from both ends. The whole scam takes coverage from the two disliked unions (ALAEA and TWU) and hands them to two unions who each have less than 1% of their members in aviation.
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Cleaning an aircraft hardly counts towards the two year experience requirements for a cat 'A' approval. I have worked under EASA and JAR 145 systems for years and never once have I seen a cleaner awarded time spent picking up rubbish as aircraft maintenance experience.
To obtain a cat A approval a candidate still has to complete the correct combination of theory modules for the category they are looking to pick up out of the following list:
Modules 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, and 17. These are mostly examined at level 1 which is lower than for a cat B approval. Nonetheless they still need to be completed.
Then they need to have the appropriate logged 2 years practical experience, as well as the appropriate task training.
Anybody can study and sit for the modules. If a cleaner is motivated enough to study these, is lucky enough to have an AMO provide the practical experience requirements then that is no different to the motor mechanics, fitter/turners, trade assistants, that have done exactly that in the past to gain a CAR 31 license.
The real issue here is the loss of cat B positions to the cat A positions.
I don't like QF, I have never worked for QF, and I have made a career choice to never work for QF.
This does not change the fact that they are running a business and the cat A is now a part of that business, much as it has been in most other parts of the world for years.
In my experience the cat A replaces the AME more so than the cat B. The only difference here is that QF are top heavy with cat B's and they are paying a large portion of them big dollars to carry out mundane tasks.
The cat A is here to stay....You will have some of them who never want to progress to cat B , and some who will. Those who do will find a way. Maybe that way is not with Qantas.
There is life outside the red rat.
One important question that needs answering is: Can a cat A certify for a mechanic's (AME) work or does the cat A certification privilege only extend to the work carried out by themselves as the approval holder?
To obtain a cat A approval a candidate still has to complete the correct combination of theory modules for the category they are looking to pick up out of the following list:
Modules 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, and 17. These are mostly examined at level 1 which is lower than for a cat B approval. Nonetheless they still need to be completed.
Then they need to have the appropriate logged 2 years practical experience, as well as the appropriate task training.
Anybody can study and sit for the modules. If a cleaner is motivated enough to study these, is lucky enough to have an AMO provide the practical experience requirements then that is no different to the motor mechanics, fitter/turners, trade assistants, that have done exactly that in the past to gain a CAR 31 license.
The real issue here is the loss of cat B positions to the cat A positions.
I don't like QF, I have never worked for QF, and I have made a career choice to never work for QF.
This does not change the fact that they are running a business and the cat A is now a part of that business, much as it has been in most other parts of the world for years.
In my experience the cat A replaces the AME more so than the cat B. The only difference here is that QF are top heavy with cat B's and they are paying a large portion of them big dollars to carry out mundane tasks.
The cat A is here to stay....You will have some of them who never want to progress to cat B , and some who will. Those who do will find a way. Maybe that way is not with Qantas.
There is life outside the red rat.
One important question that needs answering is: Can a cat A certify for a mechanic's (AME) work or does the cat A certification privilege only extend to the work carried out by themselves as the approval holder?
Last edited by Gas Bags; 30th May 2013 at 10:13.
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Well stated and explaned GasBags, it takes an EASA licensee to explain the new CASA regulations. Unfortunately that means you should know the answer to your own question ending your topic.
A cat A licensee cannot sign for work done buy others nor supervise others.
A cat A licensee can sign the whole job when it is done with another cat A licensee. This from my memory when I was working the EASA system.
Greetzzz
A cat A licensee cannot sign for work done buy others nor supervise others.
A cat A licensee can sign the whole job when it is done with another cat A licensee. This from my memory when I was working the EASA system.
Greetzzz
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Without opening up a new can of worms, is it possible that the LAME union is being snubbed as many of it's members have transferred into this great EASA style system with Cat "A" licences issued on type, and QF want to distance themselves from any form of payment for it?
Do they now need to join 2 unions for both licences??
Do they now need to join 2 unions for both licences??
Last edited by Ngineer; 31st May 2013 at 01:07.
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We can still represent a B licence holder on issues related to their A lcences that they are also given.
The company wanted these A only people represented by a union that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about in Aviation because they have managed to get them for virtually nothing. By doing this they now also have LAMEs in two seperate Agreements and can deploy them as strikebreakers against each other. The AWU and AMWU have delivered the airline everything the union movement stands against.
Gas Bags as for you explanation about who what and how of A licences, what you say is correct in Europe but you cannot underestimate the control Qantas has over CASA to water down every protection the original system was designed for. In my experience CASA has sided with Qantas on every single issue I have worked on eg. supporting Qantaslink to take action against LAMEs for reporting faulty cockpit doors.
The company wanted these A only people represented by a union that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about in Aviation because they have managed to get them for virtually nothing. By doing this they now also have LAMEs in two seperate Agreements and can deploy them as strikebreakers against each other. The AWU and AMWU have delivered the airline everything the union movement stands against.
Gas Bags as for you explanation about who what and how of A licences, what you say is correct in Europe but you cannot underestimate the control Qantas has over CASA to water down every protection the original system was designed for. In my experience CASA has sided with Qantas on every single issue I have worked on eg. supporting Qantaslink to take action against LAMEs for reporting faulty cockpit doors.
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GDU,
It was a rhetorical question...Asked to go somewhat towards dispelling the myth of the cat B disappearing and being replaced by cat A labour. As I pointed out it will be the AME who will be replaced by the cat A more so than the cat B.
As human nature dictates, people do not like change and they are afraid of the unknown. Part 66 is just that to a lot of people who gain their knowledge about it in the smoko room.
Goal posts virtually never moved in this industry in Australia for many many decades. In the last twenty years industry change has been enormous for Australian engineers compared to the prior 50 years. Change will increase more so over the next 5-10 years. If you can learn to move with that change and benefit in the ways that change can give, you will have a far more rewarding career.
For the 30 year institutionalised QF LAME that is probably not much help...For the newly rated QF LAME it is maybe a little more understandable.
It was a rhetorical question...Asked to go somewhat towards dispelling the myth of the cat B disappearing and being replaced by cat A labour. As I pointed out it will be the AME who will be replaced by the cat A more so than the cat B.
As human nature dictates, people do not like change and they are afraid of the unknown. Part 66 is just that to a lot of people who gain their knowledge about it in the smoko room.
Goal posts virtually never moved in this industry in Australia for many many decades. In the last twenty years industry change has been enormous for Australian engineers compared to the prior 50 years. Change will increase more so over the next 5-10 years. If you can learn to move with that change and benefit in the ways that change can give, you will have a far more rewarding career.
For the 30 year institutionalised QF LAME that is probably not much help...For the newly rated QF LAME it is maybe a little more understandable.
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Now that the company have the ability to use the "A" license, thanks to the AWU! 
there will be no B1/2 courses or very little type training in the future!! 
there will be no B1/2 courses or very little type training in the future!!
- There has been stuff all training for AMEs anyway.
- Cat A may reduce the opportunity for AMEs to be type trained but the percentage of AMEs being trained over the last few years is so close to zero that it we may not even notice the difference.
- A lot of the people who would benefit most from this agreement are the ones that have been stuck at the "glass ceiling" for ten years as a result of an EBA that a lot of you critics probably voted for 15 - 20 years ago to feather your own nest.
- For those high level LAMEs out there with 25+ years service, think about how easy it was for you to get training and compare it to how hard it is for an AME today. And don't give me that "it goes in cycles" crap. I have been at QF long enough to know that whatever cycle there used to be is long gone.
Fed Sec, you said
outcomes in recent times have generally been won by LAMEs through disputes; such as those in 2008 and 2011
In 2011 your effective, tactical, industrial campaign got blown out of the water by the threatened lockout. This resulted in a determination that was basically a roll over of the previous agreement that was missing some key words that could have prevented this thread from ever existing. If the words "no A licences for the life of this agreement" had been in your determination I would not be here typing this dribble.
The AME unions cop a lot of crap from LAMEs and the ALAEA for not having any industrial backbone. Cast your mind back to the mid 2000's when QF had their "wage freeze". There was only one aggreement in that period that had a pay rise in it and it wasn't the ALAEA's.
My 2cents
LSaA