JHAS Keeps 457's over Local workers in new Redundancy round
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So;
You expect JHAS to put off the 457's and employ ex QF guys without the licences that bring in the revenue, then train them on full wages.
Is this correct?
Any comments? Fed Sec?
Is this correct?
Any comments? Fed Sec?
Last edited by pacificmarlin; 11th Oct 2012 at 03:59.
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pacificmarlin....im sure FedSec will respond to your question soon however I'm sure your comedy routine on this thread is simply about you having a chip on your shoulder about some past event where a Union upset you? We work alongside your type quite often, we're so used to it now.....its getting boring.
I can understand what pacificmarlin is getting at, but my beef is with certain companies that abuse the 457 visa system as an excuse to not pay for locals to remove the restrictions from their B1 licenses. I can name individuals who were brought into this country who were not qualified for the job , but had the much vaunted full B1 (one didn't even have any type ratings!), and then had tens of thousands of dollars spent on them with type courses. This practice is plainly discriminatory to any normal person, but legal in the eyes of the Immigration Dept, because the company concerned has demonstrated compliance with the perceived shortage of qualified LAME's. 
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I'm sorry Genx, I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. BUT, you all are talking about a company I am employed by. I am a Lame and am an Australian. I have re- read this thread, and can assure you that although my posts do contain something bordering sarcasm, they also contain the most fact. Not hearsay, fact. My queries of the Fed Sec were there because everyone else seems to fall back to his 'voice of knowledge' definitely no pun intended. I have no gripe with the ALAEA other than everyone seems to expect them to be the Almighty voice. Previous to going overseas, I had been involved and attended several soirees to Bexley in various roles.
What do you guys want? Do you really want to rip **** out of an organisation that is trying to meet a demand and not only profit, but grow.
Since I began here, the growth has been exponential for line and overnight aircraft and carriers.
When at VB prior VT, I also saw exponential growth that was beyond capacity leading to shortcuts and failings.
I question a lot of these postings and it is our right to do so.
Get this right though, I'm not here for anyone's entertainment.
If people want to tell untruths to make themselves feel better and it affects me, I'll challenge it and be as sarcastic as I deem necessary.
I am not a unionist and that is just a personal choice, one made since I returned.
Basically because the ALAEA represents to the lowest common denominator.
I do find incompetence objectionable, so feel no need to support it through unionism. That's also my right.
Thanks for your attention.
What do you guys want? Do you really want to rip **** out of an organisation that is trying to meet a demand and not only profit, but grow.
Since I began here, the growth has been exponential for line and overnight aircraft and carriers.
When at VB prior VT, I also saw exponential growth that was beyond capacity leading to shortcuts and failings.
I question a lot of these postings and it is our right to do so.
Get this right though, I'm not here for anyone's entertainment.
If people want to tell untruths to make themselves feel better and it affects me, I'll challenge it and be as sarcastic as I deem necessary.
I am not a unionist and that is just a personal choice, one made since I returned.
Basically because the ALAEA represents to the lowest common denominator.
I do find incompetence objectionable, so feel no need to support it through unionism. That's also my right.
Thanks for your attention.
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We're so privileged to have you here.
Seeing how you're in the 'know', maybe you can enlighten us as to whether it is true 2 A330 LAME's were made redundant.
Seeing how you're in the 'know', maybe you can enlighten us as to whether it is true 2 A330 LAME's were made redundant.
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Nutso, I have no idea. This may be your chance to challenge it legally. I have heard that incompetence and non attendance may be influences leading to redundancy. Does that worry you?
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Again with the character assasination of your colleagues. You must be a joy to work with.
Just to be clear, I was saying 'we' at pprune are privileged to have you here educating us with your wisdom. I don't work at JHAS.
'Incompetance and non attendance', is that what you are suggesting your former colleagues were made redundant for? I can't speak for them, but obviously you can.
Incompetance must be on the skills shortage list as well. JHAS seem to have employed a couple. Care to comment on that untruth? (sarcasm welcome)
Just to be clear, I was saying 'we' at pprune are privileged to have you here educating us with your wisdom. I don't work at JHAS.
'Incompetance and non attendance', is that what you are suggesting your former colleagues were made redundant for? I can't speak for them, but obviously you can.
Incompetance must be on the skills shortage list as well. JHAS seem to have employed a couple. Care to comment on that untruth? (sarcasm welcome)
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During a quarrel where Remus mocked the height of the walls, Romulus slew Remus and became the sole ruler of the new Rome, which he had named after himself.
To enlarge his empire, he allowed exiles and refugees, homicides and runaway slaves to populate the area.
Romulus,
Interesting choice of names!
That couldn't be right.
Surely you must be a trekky.
To enlarge his empire, he allowed exiles and refugees, homicides and runaway slaves to populate the area.
Romulus,
Interesting choice of names!
That couldn't be right.
Surely you must be a trekky.
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I have heard that incompetence and non attendance may be influences leading to redundancy
So now there is an admission that there is incompetence and it is not the customers fault.
So now there is an admission that there is incompetence and it is not the customers fault.
Last edited by Rudder; 11th Oct 2012 at 23:32.
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Hypothetical question for Rudder
You have crew where someone (of any nationality) requires constant supervision. They are there because at the time of employment, they either interviewed well or were recommended by someone with an empire to build. Or any number of other reasons.
Are you willing to suffer the inefficiency of always needing two people to do the job of one, or do you do a risk analysis and only allocate them simple tasks?
Either way, this will put pressure on the rest to carry the load.
I suggest that this happens everywhere.
What would you recommend?
Are you willing to suffer the inefficiency of always needing two people to do the job of one, or do you do a risk analysis and only allocate them simple tasks?
Either way, this will put pressure on the rest to carry the load.
I suggest that this happens everywhere.
What would you recommend?
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Where were the local applicants when the jobs were advertised?
Are there any A330/A320 LAME's available even now.
I am aware there are some casuals who have bought schools, but even those will expect to be flown from their home ports, given accomodation and cars, as they have when supporting the H/Maint line.
As far as I'm aware, there was simply no one available at the time.
In reference to a previous post, the roughly 20 LAME's trained since were in Mel alone. I am aware that training also went to outports.
Experience doesn't come when you recieve your rating unfortunately.
Anyone have a practical solution?
Are there any A330/A320 LAME's available even now.
I am aware there are some casuals who have bought schools, but even those will expect to be flown from their home ports, given accomodation and cars, as they have when supporting the H/Maint line.
As far as I'm aware, there was simply no one available at the time.
In reference to a previous post, the roughly 20 LAME's trained since were in Mel alone. I am aware that training also went to outports.
Experience doesn't come when you recieve your rating unfortunately.
Anyone have a practical solution?
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Hi. I don't intend to be an everyday feature in this forum, or plan to dispel every rumour out there. But I couldn't help myself in this discussion.......
When I came to this business, it's fair to say that there was room for improvement. Generally, if a business doesn't make money it gets shut down - simple as that. And fundamentally we were losing money. In fact this business has never made any money since John Holland bought it. It really is admirable that John Holland have continued to invest and try to make this business work.
And its not just about the money. For a business to be truly sustainable it must also be sustainable from the perspectives of culture, safety and quality. It must be customer focussed and deliver value in what it does.
I have read through the posts below and while I will obviously have some differences in opinion about a number of the points made, I agree entirely with the ALAEA and several other posts in relation to the opportunities that are available to the business. JHAS provides a service and capability which I believe are needed within the industry. There will always be a local need for line and overnight work. Opportunities in heavy maintenance are harder, but also possible. We have a brilliant facility and a dedicated workforce of great people with decades of expertise. Aircraft break, and we have the skills, experience and facilities to fix them.
Contrary to post by “The WholeEnchilada” I would be the first to stand up and say that we, senior management, have made mistakes over the life of JHAS’s operations. These mistakes have, in part, led to our current situation. But the whole team is now pushing forward a program of activity to rectify this through a number of avenues, including pursuit of future revenue streams, cost reductions, improving our efficiency and improving our quality. Redundancies are simply awful, but unfortunately in this case necessary - and regardless of residential status we have to maintain the right mix of skills and licences. We are also having difficult but frank discussions with all our customers, investing in our safety infrastructure, putting a huge effort into our quality assurance programs and rebuilding how this business works. We are on the right track and things are improving. However if JHAS is to survive and if we are to keep this capability and these jobs, we need the support, effort and commitment of the whole industry. Everyday our dedicated employees do fantastic things and the aim is to make this business sustainable for the long term.
Everybody wants JHAS to be successful - our staff, our customers, government and the unions. Collectively we have an interest in seeing a strong and healthy local aviation maintenance industry. We all need to be working to make JHAS central to that.
Cheers
When I came to this business, it's fair to say that there was room for improvement. Generally, if a business doesn't make money it gets shut down - simple as that. And fundamentally we were losing money. In fact this business has never made any money since John Holland bought it. It really is admirable that John Holland have continued to invest and try to make this business work.
And its not just about the money. For a business to be truly sustainable it must also be sustainable from the perspectives of culture, safety and quality. It must be customer focussed and deliver value in what it does.
I have read through the posts below and while I will obviously have some differences in opinion about a number of the points made, I agree entirely with the ALAEA and several other posts in relation to the opportunities that are available to the business. JHAS provides a service and capability which I believe are needed within the industry. There will always be a local need for line and overnight work. Opportunities in heavy maintenance are harder, but also possible. We have a brilliant facility and a dedicated workforce of great people with decades of expertise. Aircraft break, and we have the skills, experience and facilities to fix them.
Contrary to post by “The WholeEnchilada” I would be the first to stand up and say that we, senior management, have made mistakes over the life of JHAS’s operations. These mistakes have, in part, led to our current situation. But the whole team is now pushing forward a program of activity to rectify this through a number of avenues, including pursuit of future revenue streams, cost reductions, improving our efficiency and improving our quality. Redundancies are simply awful, but unfortunately in this case necessary - and regardless of residential status we have to maintain the right mix of skills and licences. We are also having difficult but frank discussions with all our customers, investing in our safety infrastructure, putting a huge effort into our quality assurance programs and rebuilding how this business works. We are on the right track and things are improving. However if JHAS is to survive and if we are to keep this capability and these jobs, we need the support, effort and commitment of the whole industry. Everyday our dedicated employees do fantastic things and the aim is to make this business sustainable for the long term.
Everybody wants JHAS to be successful - our staff, our customers, government and the unions. Collectively we have an interest in seeing a strong and healthy local aviation maintenance industry. We all need to be working to make JHAS central to that.
Cheers
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Fantastic debate happening here amongst industry people who are passionate about the oz industry surviving well into the future and if JHAS can continue to employ 300+ engineers around the country let's support them!!!!!!
Now is not the time to start eating our own.......
Now is not the time to start eating our own.......
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Coms to staff
Good to see management responding at this time, however I have to ask "Have you transmitted this information effectively to your staff so they know the facts and future direction?"
I cannot express how important this can be at this point in time.
I cannot express how important this can be at this point in time.
I understand JHAS needed a foot in the door, which is where my point will lead. But now they're in the game, it's obvious this isn't a cheap sport. Skilled labour costs money, facilities cost money, training costs, safety costs, everything costs.
The race to the bottom in terms of chasing the ever lower expectation of the LCC and international operators by providing the service at absolute minimum cost has had this effect on JHAS.
If JHAS were able to charge customers more then the cost of doing the business would they be running at a loss ?
I think it's time the AMSA's and JHAS's and the IASA's(RIP) stop pandering to the unreal expectations of foreign and local carriers for doing the work for next to nothing. It's not JHAS's fault they are trying to balance running a profitable business with a fully compliant service to the industry. We should be at least glad there is a further airliner based career path out there except the major airlines.
I just make this suggestion, the next time Air "insert 3rd world country here" says we want to pay $50/transit, tell them its $1000 - ie the cost of doing business plus a bit on top, it will only benefit us all.
The race to the bottom in terms of chasing the ever lower expectation of the LCC and international operators by providing the service at absolute minimum cost has had this effect on JHAS.
If JHAS were able to charge customers more then the cost of doing the business would they be running at a loss ?
I think it's time the AMSA's and JHAS's and the IASA's(RIP) stop pandering to the unreal expectations of foreign and local carriers for doing the work for next to nothing. It's not JHAS's fault they are trying to balance running a profitable business with a fully compliant service to the industry. We should be at least glad there is a further airliner based career path out there except the major airlines.
I just make this suggestion, the next time Air "insert 3rd world country here" says we want to pay $50/transit, tell them its $1000 - ie the cost of doing business plus a bit on top, it will only benefit us all.
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JHAS GM (yeah right)....you say redundancies are simply awful and we have to maintain the right mix of skills and licences. Then you terminate the employment of LAME's with the most skills and Licences? How does that make sense? You say that "we are on the right track and things are improving" Are you kidding? JHAS has lost millions and continues to lose money on a monthly basis. You say "the whole team is pushing forward a program of activity....etc, etc". Obviously a team that doesn't involve its employees or encourage input from the workforce. In fact, anyone with any constructive criticism will find themselves with the lowest scores on some manipulated "skills" matrix that you use to select who is made redundant and who stays. Events of the past few days confirms this.
If you really are the GM, then let your actions and not your words build the confidence of the workforce. We've heard it all before from those before you and when the going got tough.....they were the first to seek highly paid transfers to another part of the John Holland Group or left completely. Those who really give a stuff about the Industry and specifically JHAS are still here.
If you really are the GM, then let your actions and not your words build the confidence of the workforce. We've heard it all before from those before you and when the going got tough.....they were the first to seek highly paid transfers to another part of the John Holland Group or left completely. Those who really give a stuff about the Industry and specifically JHAS are still here.
All companies are like that genx. There are the wheelers and dealers who spend more time off the tools then on, they're looked upon as the go getters. The ones that have a clue are not usually recognised for the real, core value they bring to an organisation.
That's just something I've noticed working at the big Q
The ones who were given the DCM probably spoke out about safety/quality/poorly performing staff or made an insecure 'boss' look stupid.
That's just something I've noticed working at the big Q
The ones who were given the DCM probably spoke out about safety/quality/poorly performing staff or made an insecure 'boss' look stupid.
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I hope you are reading this Manager. Read the last 3 posts. Actions speak louder than words. What you did last week is in complete contrast with what you are saying. Ok. You do not have enough work and must reduce the workforce size, we understand that. You sacked the wrong people.
The best workers spend their time on the job. They don't seek limelight or credit for what they do. They don't get on here and tell everyone they are better than the rest, Pacificmarlin style. They report problems so you know what really needs to be fixed and they don't cut corners. These are the most valuable people in your Aviation business. Instead you have rated highly the ones who spend more time inflating their own value by putting down others, Pacificmarlin style.
I know the blokes you sacked and have worked with them. Your business won't succeed when you get rid of your best people.
Talking about profit. How much have you blown in court rooms preventing the staff securing a poroper wage agreement? You have lost a big case and now even have to pay the legal fees for the unions. This is madness. You should sit down with us and work out how to make your business successful and abandon this idea that cost cutting is the key. It just creates more problems.
I could write 10 pages of advice for you on here. When I know that you are interested in a successful business model I will. Until then, I hope you go back to construction and allow a real aviation company to take charge of those hangars.
The best workers spend their time on the job. They don't seek limelight or credit for what they do. They don't get on here and tell everyone they are better than the rest, Pacificmarlin style. They report problems so you know what really needs to be fixed and they don't cut corners. These are the most valuable people in your Aviation business. Instead you have rated highly the ones who spend more time inflating their own value by putting down others, Pacificmarlin style.
I know the blokes you sacked and have worked with them. Your business won't succeed when you get rid of your best people.
Talking about profit. How much have you blown in court rooms preventing the staff securing a poroper wage agreement? You have lost a big case and now even have to pay the legal fees for the unions. This is madness. You should sit down with us and work out how to make your business successful and abandon this idea that cost cutting is the key. It just creates more problems.
I could write 10 pages of advice for you on here. When I know that you are interested in a successful business model I will. Until then, I hope you go back to construction and allow a real aviation company to take charge of those hangars.