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Dallas Dispute - Qantas Crew stood down.

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Dallas Dispute - Qantas Crew stood down.

Old 20th Aug 2012, 14:16
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Dallas Dispute - Qantas Crew stood down.

This would be the 'QF8' delay alluded to in a previous thread:
Runway ruckus: Qantas pilots hit stormy weather before take-off
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 14:32
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I'd be punching my effo if he tried to punch stuff into my beloved FMS!
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 14:52
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Accorrding to the report, it was one of the SOs, not the FO.

If he can't sort things out with the knuckle, a shrewd capt can always resort to "CRM" to mind-f**k the SO into feeling placated and shutting his yap. Looks like the capt dropped the ball on this occasion.

Capts being reported by the help, capts being gotten the better of by SOs... what next? The cleaners lodging complaints???
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 20:55
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Couldn't the skipper and s/o settle the issue without getting the " ground " moppets into the party? Both must be really ANAL to the core to allow this to happen!
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 20:57
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Reminds me of the story where a Qantas SO cleaned his seat rail with a toothbrush after he got upset when it wasn't done to his satisfaction.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 20:58
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I wonder who keeps leaking these stories to the media.

It seems to me that every time QF makes an announcement that might draw adverse attention to itself, a story painting QF pilots in a bad light appears at the same time. A few weeks ago when Joyce confirmed QF's losses, it was the 'drunk' pilot story. Now, that AJ's salary vs QF's poor performance is being highlighted, we get this story. A few years ago, incidents such as these would have been kept in-house.

QF PR at its finest.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 21:04
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If my sources are correct, the capt involved has a history of extremely bad inter-crew relations , with many crew bidding to avoid.

Perhaps just picked the wrong s/o to do his usual screaming and shouting / one man army routine on.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 21:20
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Was it BA ?

Seem to remember a similar series of altercations many years ago, punch ups on the flight deck etc. I thought they traced it back to a HR issue, screening process or something. Dim memories now, but; mayhap, there is a solution in history.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 21:25
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A blue between the S/O and the Skipper? Whatever happened to " if I want your fu#$ing advice I will ask for it"? So famously stated in years gone by. Obviously the G/Y generation have taken their attitude to the flight deck. You would have to pity the F/O probably trying to stop the other two belting each other.If indeed lack of discipline is starting to show in the office, then its time something is done about it, one ship, one Captain, and unless you need to utter those words "Captain you must listen to me" its probably a good idea to speak to the F/O first and quietly voice your concerns, he will either support you or go with the Skipper, either way no harm done. As probably the oldest S/O QF ever had (due to the little altercation in 89) there was many a time I had to bite my tongue, but in all fairness most of the Skippers asked my opinion, ( probably due to the fact that I was old enough to be their father and possibly had a clue). Anyway, who is releasing this stuff?
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 21:41
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Isn't the Qantas psychometric, NASA selection testing supposed to weed out this kind of thing?
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 21:43
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It seems to me that every time QF makes an announcement that might draw
adverse attention to itself, a story painting QF pilots in a bad light appears
at the same time.
Or someone in the press asks a question (and there are not too many of them) or has a little dig, to be sure, like this:

YOU could never accuse Alan Joyce of having his head in the clouds.

The latest in an ever-lengthening conga line of corporate leaders to resist
the temptation for a few extra million dollars in take-home pay, the Qantas boss yesterday declared he, too, would not accept a bonus this year.

A noble gesture, to be sure. But it immediately begged the question: After a year of turmoil at the airline, culminating in an expected loss of more than $200 million, why would he even imagine he was entitled to one?
Read more: The mood has shifted on bonuses for high-flyers
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 22:08
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Believe me, this protagonist has a VERY long history of tea and bickies.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 22:29
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 22:34
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It seems they put a camera in for my last cyclic.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 22:43
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Thumbs up

Teresa,

What should the other crew member do if the "Captain you must Listen" has been rolled out and still nothing happens.
What would be the outcome if the crew had departed with an incident/accident occurring and the CVR recordings indicating complete breakdown in flight deck cooperation?
Good on Qantas for standing down the crew till this is resolved.
As usual there are three sides(at least) to every story.
The old school of perceiving the S/O as a mindless ****, is no longer entirely relevant as many have come from extremely rich(experience/skill levels) flying backgrounds.
As recent as 13 Oct 2008 in Lanzarote an overbearing Capt pressured the F/O till his S.A was so diminished he felt unable to speak up and an overrun ensued.
A good result so far, Safety is the primary driver.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 22:53
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Sounds typical of the CRM of some of the QF pilots I've met over the years.
"I couldn't possibly be wrong", "Neither could I", "No you must be, "No, you must be", etc,etc
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 23:11
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"I couldn't possibly be wrong", "Neither could I", "No you must be, "No, you must be", etc,etc
So how exactly was your approach different to that of "some of the QF pilots I've met over the years"?
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 23:23
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I guess the exact incident truth will never come out, at least in this forum anyway.
SO speak up more these days ever since the Qantas 747 parked itself in the golf course a few years ago. The SO said nothing and lost his job.
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 23:37
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Isn't the Qantas psychometric, NASA selection testing supposed to weed out this kind of thing?
Very good question Sand Dune Sam. Maybe the QF PPRuNe armchair solicitors can answer this one. Keg, Livs hairdresser etc. care to comment?
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Old 20th Aug 2012, 23:38
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Seems to me that this shouldve been a perfect case of having 3 crew members to resolve an issue between 2 of them. If the S/O had either incorrectly entered the wrong data, or The captain believed that they had...... Well then as the Capt and S/O stand their ground, the F/O steps in and makes an independent assessment..... Effectively becoming the umpire.

Of course these issues are never as straight forward as this, and quite possibly there is some background of past history involved.

Remember the last resort (and yes it can be viewed as extreme..... Especially for a S/O) is to pick up your nav bag and walk off the flight deck. After that it doesn't matter what happens. Call your ops dept, HR etc and explain the situation. No airline wants an aircraft to depart with the crew at each others throats!
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