QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?

[TallestPoppy]

Anothersuperlame, are you really suggesting the Government should prop up Qantas?

Perhaps they should also then subsidise your local plumber and butcher to?

If Qantas can't be run successfully as a business, sadly, it should be allowed to fail.

[mcgrath50]

Perhaps they should also then subsidise your local plumber and butcher to?

Either we live in an economy that has government subsidies or we don't. It creates a worse marketplace to subsidies some (car manufacturing) and leave others to deal with market forces (aviation maint.) what you end up with is one industry so far out on a limb, it becomes a massive drain on government resources.

You can't do subsidies half heartedly for long term economic management, vote winning on the other hand...

[another superlame]

The car industry is forever being bailed out.
I am not saying subsidise the aviation sector indefinitely, but a one lump sum.
Tell QF and VB, here is the money to build you new facilities and to get them running.
Qf are always banging on about the cost of such a facility, and they cant afford to build it for only 14 aircraft. So if the facility is built for them and it can handle any widebody flying today and into the future then their argument would be invalid.

And butchers and plumbers, the coles/woolies duopoly is to blame for the the end of the local butcher/baker, but the trades are still available.
Plumbers and sparkies, the red headed bogan wants to bring in US trades people.
That is a short term solution, but are they going to increase training for these trades to deal with it in the long term?

Also the aircraft apprentice trade has been smashed over the years, 20 years ago when you completed your trade you had a cert to cover the whole aviation maintenance industry for your trade.
QF has bastardised the system so you now only complete what they want you to complete, so when QF makes you redundant as they seem to these days, you are left with a ticket that doesn't include GA and helicopters. That is OK if QF keep you for your whole career but that doesn't happen anymore.

[Taildragger67]

Poppy,

On your argument, GM shouldn't get any federal money but rather should just shut up shop & go home.

The issue is not the viability of a particular business, but retention of an industrial base and related skills, as a national resource.

That's why we pay gazillions to build subs & warships here, rather than just buying them all off-the-shelf.

But then again if the government doesn't want for us to have the skills to be able to fix things onshore, then fine, let the business concerned either sink into the swamp or send everything to Manila or Xiamen.

[shon7]

all this conjecture is nonsense.
Qantas is in serious trouble and AJ is one of the few managers that can fix it.

If the board had an issue with him they could have removed him by now. Apparently, that is not the case.

The sooner QF employees realize this the better it is. Passengers dont care about the bickering, noise and the back and forth. At the end of the day the booking decision is based on either price or service - QF provides neither.

[SpannerTwister]

What a strange post that was..

Originally Posted by shon7

.....Qantas is in serious trouble and AJ is one of the few managers that can fix it.......Passengers dont care about the bickering, noise and the back and forth. At the end of the day the booking decision is based on either price or service - QF provides neither.

Your opening argument is that AJ walks on water, your closing argument is that he is not performing.

Please pick one.

ST

[another superlame]

AJ was employed to do a job.Break the unions. I think like it or not he has gotten his way.(or Geoff Dixons way)

[V-Jet]

Elaine is (like all his masters) an absolute incompetent buffoon.

Like it or lump it guys - QF is finished.

These clowns got themselves paid deca millions to trash the place and put money in their own pockets.


Look at it this way.

Every time a jumbo or dugong takes off on a long haul flight it is burning at LEAST 40,000kgs MORE JetA or JETA1 than its nearest competitor.

And they did this deliberately. Or at the very least incompetently. GROSSLY incompletely. And my money is on deliberately.

I heard from a reliable source today that they are panicking about the inroads VJ Aus is making into their domestic market. So they have employed (again) at huge expense an outside marketing firm to 'retrain' cabin crew.

Do these idiots know nothing..... Sorry, waste of time, rhetorical questions.

Incompetence.... disgusting and appalling incompetence.

[my oleo is extended]

Does Joyce accept dares?? If so, I dare him to resign, accept a role with a Chinese carrier as CEO and burn that companies profits by 83%! I can tell you what his bonus will be - death by firing squad!

Joyce, face it, you are out of your league. You were a two-bit manager buried in the bowels of Ansett in a chump department, a no better manager at Onestar and now you have completely decimated a national icon. You give some genuinely good Irish people a bad name. Your track record speaks volumes - everything you touch (in aviation) turns into brown matter.

[73to91]

they have employed (again) at huge expense an outside marketing firm to
'retrain' cabin crew.

which leads to the question, who is responsible for the training now? have they lost their job because surely someone believes they are not doing a good job.

[TIMA9X]

I heard from a reliable source today that they are panicking about the inroads VJ Aus is making into their domestic market.

It appears JB is indeed making all the right moves... stories like this are appearing more frequently, whilst AJ and co are busy sorting out long haul, now the domestic division is attracting attention... the saga continues..

Virgin chasing Kangaroos tail for business - ETBMICEVirgin chasing Kangaroos tail for business

Thursday, April 05, 2012

Having just launched business class in January 2012, Virgin Australia is gaining business traveller’s favour with 54 per cent of travellers considering the airline for their next business trip.

Monopolising on disgruntled Qantas business customers as a result of the airline’s grounding of all planes in late October 2011, Virgin Australia has seen a rise in popularity.

Introducing business class has also opened Virgin Australia’s attraction of advertisers in the in-flight magazine, on airport signage and planes.

According to the Roy Morgan Air Travel Survey, Qantas still is preferred consideration for business travel; however this has dropped 3 per cent from last year’s 75 per cent for the twelve months to August 2011.

Both airlines now face the challenge of understanding their customers’ needs to better satisfy them and win business.

MICEBTN - More business going Virgin

and this one;

'UNACCEPTABLE' - Katter slams Qantas fares - Local News - News - General - North West Star

THE cost of Qantas flights from Mount Isa to Brisbane is "unacceptable", says the new Member-elect for Mount Isa, Robbie Katter."It's totally unacceptable that they fleece us and subsidise their other routes," Mr Katter said

[AnQrKa]

"Every time a jumbo or dugong takes off on a long haul flight it is burning at LEAST 40,000kgs MORE JetA or JETA1 than its nearest competitor."

Really? How do you figure this?

[Wedcue]

"Where to now" should read, "Cutting to where now?"

If you are a Qantas pilot, I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. Qantas will have a very difficult time making pilots redundant. They have to offer employment to people in their other business branches such as Jetstar (provided they are employing) before you get made redundant.

However, Jetstar is going on a pretty hard recruitment drive and it's tough to see where they will be based, it's almost like Jetstar is starting to hold the surplus.

As for Qantas offering jobs at Jetstar to pilots, it's all well and good while they are associated... but what if China Eastern decided to buy Jetstar.. And Qantas is no longer part of the Jetstar group...

China Eastern would love to spread their wings...

Just rumours.. Discuss.

[V-Jet]

"Every time a jumbo or dugong takes off on a long haul flight it is burning at LEAST 40,000kgs MORE JetA or JETA1 than its nearest competitor."

Really? How do you figure this?

B777 @ 7,000kgs per hour x 10 hours = 70,000kgs
B747 @ 10,000kgs per hour x 10 hours = 100,000kgs
A380 @ 13,000kgs per hour x 10 hours = 130,000kgs

Rocket science isn't my strong point, but I am pretty proud of myself out doing our Mathematician 'Dear Leader'.

Those extra 120 odd pax get VERY expensive. Nice one Dixon, well earned $80m - We're all mighty proud of ya!

The numbers get far worse though - especially in the case of the Dugong. Whispers from the Bazaars suggest SIA are none too happy and have asked Boeing for a solution, the pax numbers just do not stack up and the longer the thing flies the worse it gets. Great up to 8 hours - exponentially worse after that. Most of its flights are 12-13 hours+. It needs to carry 600-650 pax to work efficiently and it just doesn't. It probably will in time, but what about the next 5 years. What about $150 or even $200 fuel price?

And these idiots decree a different APU policy every 30 seconds to 'save fuel'!! Talk about Deck Chair Management!!!

This has degenerated to absolute insanity - QF management is totally incompetent, completely out of their depth and daily insulting staff with 'outsourced' retraining etc. They cannot even think of the real reason for failure (THEMSELVES) and are conducting nothing more than straw grabbing exercises on a grand scale.

Good points Wedcue (above) - interesting thoughts.

[tgbgtgb]

Those extra 120 odd pax get VERY expensive.!

But how many more W/J/P pax can a 380 take over a 777? Id say a seat on a 380 is probably worth more than a seat on a 777 on the same sector.

I still think theres a gap in the fleet somewhere between a 330 and a 380 that a 777 should fill though. If you could replace all of the 747s with them tomorrow or even three years ago that is.

[V-Jet]

Id say a seat on a 380 is probably worth more than a seat on a 777 on the same sector.

Surely you are not suggesting Qantas could pursue a premium product strategy are you? That sort of lunatic idea went out 10 years ago. EVERYONE at Qantas KNOWS the only way to make money is to sell something as cheaply as you possibly can. Or even better, sell it for LESS than it costs you! That is the way of the future - we have millions of expensive consultants reports that prove that is how you do it...

How can you expect to be treated seriously tgbgtbgbgbgbgtbtgbtg with heretic thoughts like that! Idiot!

[1a sound asleep]

B777 @ 7,000kgs per hour x 10 hours = 70,000kgs
B747 @ 10,000kgs per hour x 10 hours = 100,000kgs
A380 @ 13,000 per hour x 10 hours = 130,000kgs

Hypothetical 10 hour sector -

Emirates Airlines Airbus A380-800 Version 1 489 PAX TOTAL
266 KG PER PAX

Emirates Airlines Boeing 777-300 3-Class (773) 440 PAX TOTAL
159 KG PER PAX

I realise that there are other factors including pax class configs/mix and freight revenue, BUT no matter which way you look at it the 773 is a winner. Why do you think EK has another 80 on order?

This is fuel burn savings alone. Ad in reduced capital/lease cost and less maintenance and it's obvious that there was a home for the 773 in QF

Reality is the dugong was the must have in the boys toy room and yes there are routes that really need 4 engines. BUT QF never needed the A380.

[hotnhigh]

And every night when qantas and Voz taxi in lax for sydney, the respective fuel uplifts differ by about 80t.
No secrets when Voz and qf share the same handling agent over there and fuel figures are passed on vhf.

[TallestPoppy]

And the situation will continue until Qantas lowers it cost base, and can increase its yield.

There is no way Qantas can afford the Capital Expenditure required to replace the B747's with B777's until the above happens.

Sorry guys, but your current costs are too high, and your product and its marketing isn't attracting enough Business and First Class passengers to the airline.

Qantas and its employees need to change to suvive.

[Capt Kremin]

Fine.

1. Sack all upper management. (That was the cornerstone of my engagement survey response). Replace them with airline people who believe in the brand and the staff.

2. Sell off the entire J* Int and its franchises to anyone silly enough to buy them. Keep J* Australia as the LCC/feeder to mainline.

3. Use the money earned (because it is such a fantastic business) to replace the 747's about to be retired with 777's.

4. Use the 787-8's to replace the 767's on Domestic and long/thin international routes. Use them to eventually replace the A330's.

5. Use the A380's only out of SYD, BNE and MEL to SIN, BKK, PVG and HKG as feeders to the 777/787-9's that will hub out of there with increased frequencies from SYD, BNE. MEL, ADL, PER, CNS and DRW; that will open up all those European destinations QF used to go to.

That will do for a start.