Albanese does nothing on Sydney Airports
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KSA to go 24 hrs, and a air traffic control service that can actually control aircraft at the rate that other international airports do, not panic when numbers hit 80 per day, then we will NOT need another airport for quite some time!
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Max still reckons there is no need a 2nd airport.........
Albanese's new airport promise branded an election beat-up
Sydney Airport's outspoken chairman, Max Moore-Wilton, has accused federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese of embarking on a ''completely confected beat-up'' to retain his electorate.
Mr Moore-Wilton's comments come a day after the Deputy Prime Minister, whose electorate of Grayndler is under one of Sydney Airport's flight paths, said he was ''absolutely determined'' to start construction of an airport within three years if Labor was re-elected.
''If a second Sydney airport is the No.1 priority for an incoming government, it will be a complete and utter waste of public money,'' Mr Moore-Wilton said.
Mr Moore-Wilton, a former secretary of the department of prime minister and cabinet under John Howard, described Mr Albanese's commitment to building an airport within three years as nothing more than a ''completely confected beat-up to win the seat of Grayndler against the Greens''.
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''There is not one recognised business person who has experience in infrastructure that supports the waste of scarce infrastructure capital to build a second Sydney airport within the time frames that Mr Albanese announced,'' he said.
''I don't know how many studies have to be undertaken to show there is no immediate need for a second Sydney airport.''
Mr Albanese's main challenger for Grayndler, Greens candidate Hall Greenland, said the minister's comments were his ''usual election-time routine''. ''As the minister responsible for Sydney's airport problems, he has had six years in the job and all that has happened is that aircraft noise and pollution have got worse over his inner-west electorate of Grayndler,'' Mr Greenland said.
London mayor Boris Johnson recently called for Heathrow airport to be closed and replaced with housing and Mr Greenland backed this idea for Sydney.
''That is the only answer that solves current problems, doesn't shift them on to other parts of Sydney or exacerbate current ones, allows for a 24/7 airport and can be paid for by the redevelopment of the present site as a model sustainable suburb on Botany Bay,'' Mr Greenland said. ''Boris Johnson has made such 21st-century thinking mainstream.''
Mr Greenland could not nominate an alternate site for an airport for Sydney but said it should not be Badgerys Creek.
Sydney Airport has long maintained that its passenger terminals and landing slots will not be full until 2045 - a forecast disputed by proponents of a second airport, including the federal government.
Asked whether there was an appetite for a relaxation of the airport's cap and curfew, Mr Moore-Wilton said: ''There is nothing stopping the increase and productivity of Sydney Airport other than Anthony Albanese.''
Premier Barry O'Farrell has proposed lifting the cap on flights from 80 to 85 flights an hour, a proposal rejected by Mr Albanese.
Mr O'Farrell has also suggested that more flights be allowed to land in the ''curfew shoulder'' period between 11pm and midnight and 5am and 6am.
The decision is not one for the state government but the federal Transport Minster.
Mr Albanese does not propose replacing Mascot airport but supplementing it with another one.
Read more: Albanese's new airport promise branded an election beat-up
Albanese's new airport promise branded an election beat-up
Sydney Airport's outspoken chairman, Max Moore-Wilton, has accused federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese of embarking on a ''completely confected beat-up'' to retain his electorate.
Mr Moore-Wilton's comments come a day after the Deputy Prime Minister, whose electorate of Grayndler is under one of Sydney Airport's flight paths, said he was ''absolutely determined'' to start construction of an airport within three years if Labor was re-elected.
''If a second Sydney airport is the No.1 priority for an incoming government, it will be a complete and utter waste of public money,'' Mr Moore-Wilton said.
Mr Moore-Wilton, a former secretary of the department of prime minister and cabinet under John Howard, described Mr Albanese's commitment to building an airport within three years as nothing more than a ''completely confected beat-up to win the seat of Grayndler against the Greens''.
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''There is not one recognised business person who has experience in infrastructure that supports the waste of scarce infrastructure capital to build a second Sydney airport within the time frames that Mr Albanese announced,'' he said.
''I don't know how many studies have to be undertaken to show there is no immediate need for a second Sydney airport.''
Mr Albanese's main challenger for Grayndler, Greens candidate Hall Greenland, said the minister's comments were his ''usual election-time routine''. ''As the minister responsible for Sydney's airport problems, he has had six years in the job and all that has happened is that aircraft noise and pollution have got worse over his inner-west electorate of Grayndler,'' Mr Greenland said.
London mayor Boris Johnson recently called for Heathrow airport to be closed and replaced with housing and Mr Greenland backed this idea for Sydney.
''That is the only answer that solves current problems, doesn't shift them on to other parts of Sydney or exacerbate current ones, allows for a 24/7 airport and can be paid for by the redevelopment of the present site as a model sustainable suburb on Botany Bay,'' Mr Greenland said. ''Boris Johnson has made such 21st-century thinking mainstream.''
Mr Greenland could not nominate an alternate site for an airport for Sydney but said it should not be Badgerys Creek.
Sydney Airport has long maintained that its passenger terminals and landing slots will not be full until 2045 - a forecast disputed by proponents of a second airport, including the federal government.
Asked whether there was an appetite for a relaxation of the airport's cap and curfew, Mr Moore-Wilton said: ''There is nothing stopping the increase and productivity of Sydney Airport other than Anthony Albanese.''
Premier Barry O'Farrell has proposed lifting the cap on flights from 80 to 85 flights an hour, a proposal rejected by Mr Albanese.
Mr O'Farrell has also suggested that more flights be allowed to land in the ''curfew shoulder'' period between 11pm and midnight and 5am and 6am.
The decision is not one for the state government but the federal Transport Minster.
Mr Albanese does not propose replacing Mascot airport but supplementing it with another one.
Read more: Albanese's new airport promise branded an election beat-up
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Game on – perhaps?
The Ben Sandilands take on the Daily Telegraph article published on the Plane Talking site makes for interesting reading, as do some of the readers comments. Tough stuff and a potential brawl in the making methinks.
We have all seen Albo's much touted "White paper" used to good effect; it's a great get out of jail card and makes a handy platform for launching nauseating speeches at conferences. Now then, have the 'opposition' got any form of aviation policy at all? The west of Sydney is on a political knife edge, the promise of jobs, business and most importantly reduced travelling time for the punters and all the "good" things a second airport would bring make an enticing election morsel; it's about time 'tuther outfit got busy and put their policy out there. How's about Mr. Truss – any aeronautical tid bits?? The silence is becoming noticeable...
Quotes are cherry picked, mostly because they made me smile...
If you can find five and a cuppa, it's worth the read.....
We have all seen Albo's much touted "White paper" used to good effect; it's a great get out of jail card and makes a handy platform for launching nauseating speeches at conferences. Now then, have the 'opposition' got any form of aviation policy at all? The west of Sydney is on a political knife edge, the promise of jobs, business and most importantly reduced travelling time for the punters and all the "good" things a second airport would bring make an enticing election morsel; it's about time 'tuther outfit got busy and put their policy out there. How's about Mr. Truss – any aeronautical tid bits?? The silence is becoming noticeable...
Quotes are cherry picked, mostly because they made me smile...
– which Mr Moore-Wilton as the operator of Sydney Airport knows full well – is that the delegate is Mike Mrdak the Secretary of my department. Mr Mrdak has a number of senior people who then make the decision who he has delegated. So it is at two steps away from myself being the decision maker.
Plane Talking doesn’t really want to be the publisher of campaign transcripts, but the implicit allegations, that the chair of Sydney Airport is totally and mischievously wrong in making quite serious allegations against the Minister responsible for airports are political dynamite.
Which means that any retraction, explanation, apology or reaffirmation of the original claims by Moore-Wilton will be also published here, if they are offered.
Last edited by Kharon; 11th Aug 2013 at 22:39. Reason: More haste - less speed.
Thread Starter
Max Moore Wilton's position is pretty funny when you taxi past a queue of international aircraft waiting for a gate because Sydney airport has run out.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 12th Aug 2013 at 00:05.
My cup of Schadenfreude runneth over. I hope Sydney and Albanese and the rest of the Sydney push choke on that airport.. I also want to ensure that not one dollar of taxpayers money gets spent on a second Sydney airport without at least equal investments in matching competing facilities in every other State.
You ****ers made your bed by monopolising international flights and channelling them through Sydney throughout the 1970- 1990 period to the detriment of every other state capital, now you can lie in it. Serves you right.
You ****ers made your bed by monopolising international flights and channelling them through Sydney throughout the 1970- 1990 period to the detriment of every other state capital, now you can lie in it. Serves you right.
Last edited by Sunfish; 12th Aug 2013 at 01:28.
You ****ers made your bed by monopolising international flights and channelling them through Sydney throughout the 1970- 1990 period to the detriment of every other state capital, now you can lie in it. Serves you right.
I enjoy reading your views, Sunfish, but your continual vitriolic ranting about Sydney-centrism makes you sound like that crazy guy on the street yelling a conversation....at himself.
Investment in airports, and other infrastructure, will be driven by the needs of the population (albeit 20 years behind in Australia).
One dot low, you are speaking to someone with A background in industry development and direct experience of the Sydney push monopolising international direct flights.
At Ansett I worked up a proposal to break the QF monopoly on TFC's on U.S. and European B747 traffic which required that any B747 from those destinations to transit through Sydney inwards or outwards. This gave rise to the passenger perception that Melbourne and Brisbane were Three hours further from London and New York than Sydney.
I had letters of support from Jurgen Von Haldenwang of LH and United (and I think Pan Am and KLM from memory). The proposal was based on the marginal cost of adding to the maintenance and spares investment we were making for the introduction into service of the B767.
My proposal went up the tree three times and the last time I was told that Sir Peter would fire the lot of us if we tried to break that Qantas monopoly.
Later in my career working for government I learned that direct international Air services are a critical determinant for the destination of foreign investment and the penny dropped.
To put that another way, Alice Springs would be the financial hub of Australia if all New York and London flights terminated there. After 20+ hours in an aircraft, a business executive will get off and stay off at the first available stop.
To put that yet another way, Sydney would not have capacity problems, in my opinion, if it didn't cart unwilling Victorians and Queenslanders on their way somewhere else through its portals.
At Ansett I worked up a proposal to break the QF monopoly on TFC's on U.S. and European B747 traffic which required that any B747 from those destinations to transit through Sydney inwards or outwards. This gave rise to the passenger perception that Melbourne and Brisbane were Three hours further from London and New York than Sydney.
I had letters of support from Jurgen Von Haldenwang of LH and United (and I think Pan Am and KLM from memory). The proposal was based on the marginal cost of adding to the maintenance and spares investment we were making for the introduction into service of the B767.
My proposal went up the tree three times and the last time I was told that Sir Peter would fire the lot of us if we tried to break that Qantas monopoly.
Later in my career working for government I learned that direct international Air services are a critical determinant for the destination of foreign investment and the penny dropped.
To put that another way, Alice Springs would be the financial hub of Australia if all New York and London flights terminated there. After 20+ hours in an aircraft, a business executive will get off and stay off at the first available stop.
To put that yet another way, Sydney would not have capacity problems, in my opinion, if it didn't cart unwilling Victorians and Queenslanders on their way somewhere else through its portals.
Alice Springs would be the financial hub of Australia
And all the casinos built in Birdsville.
By coincidence a perfect example of what I mean when I talk about international trade and investment. Sydney has stiffed the rest of Australia for international air services for at least Three decades.
NSW Business Chamber assesses economic case for second Sydney airport at Badgerys Creek - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Karen is whinging about an hour and a half, the Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane businesses have had to put up with a minimum Three hours for Three decades and the situation only really improved for us about Ten years ago.
Kaaren White, who has a high-tech manufacturing business and is trying to meet growing international demand for her products, says an airport in western Sydney cannot come soon enough.
"It currently takes about an hour-and-a-half from this factory to the airport," she said.
"You can imagine the expense to get goods from here to Sydney before it gets onto the plane to get to the rest of the world.
"If it was at Badgerys Creek it would cut it down to half-an-hour."
"It currently takes about an hour-and-a-half from this factory to the airport," she said.
"You can imagine the expense to get goods from here to Sydney before it gets onto the plane to get to the rest of the world.
"If it was at Badgerys Creek it would cut it down to half-an-hour."
Karen is whinging about an hour and a half, the Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane businesses have had to put up with a minimum Three hours for Three decades and the situation only really improved for us about Ten years ago.
Last edited by Sunfish; 12th Aug 2013 at 21:50.
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One could also assume the position Sunny is that the cities of Brisbane and Melbourne are for overseas visitors, a bit of a comedown and disappointment compared to Sydney!!!!
Why the hell you'd want to put people into those two ****holes as their first introduction to Australia is akin to introducing your new girlfriend to the inbred relatives from Guyra on your first date!!!
Give it a break Sunny.
I feel sorry for you, I really do that you can't live in Sydney...I'd be pissed too.
But please stop on your Sydney/Q bashing....it's demeaning and no doubt the spittle filled shouting at the computer issuing from your computer games room will be upsetting your pet goat
Why the hell you'd want to put people into those two ****holes as their first introduction to Australia is akin to introducing your new girlfriend to the inbred relatives from Guyra on your first date!!!
Give it a break Sunny.
I feel sorry for you, I really do that you can't live in Sydney...I'd be pissed too.But please stop on your Sydney/Q bashing....it's demeaning and no doubt the spittle filled shouting at the computer issuing from your computer games room will be upsetting your pet goat
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GADRIVR,
Please remember who you are speaking to, Sunfish was the single most important person in Ansett, he used to be a pilot, Engineer - the one that was able to get a 1000000 hour extension to gyro instruments and the main man to break the two airline policy in Australia. RESPECT please
Cheers
Please remember who you are speaking to, Sunfish was the single most important person in Ansett, he used to be a pilot, Engineer - the one that was able to get a 1000000 hour extension to gyro instruments and the main man to break the two airline policy in Australia. RESPECT please
Cheers
Thread Starter
It's becoming a irrelevent argument with China Southern, Cathay, Emirates, Singapore, Air NZ all operating to all/most capital cities.
Even if you had a super hub in Alice all these airlines would bypass it anyway. Hubs only work if you have domestic feed. Essentially a hub at Alice would only work for QF or Virgin. Even then who wants to fly half way around the world then change planes when Emirates or Singapore will take you there directly.
Additionally to all that if Sydney built a proper 24 hour airport most of the dramas will go away
Even if you had a super hub in Alice all these airlines would bypass it anyway. Hubs only work if you have domestic feed. Essentially a hub at Alice would only work for QF or Virgin. Even then who wants to fly half way around the world then change planes when Emirates or Singapore will take you there directly.
Additionally to all that if Sydney built a proper 24 hour airport most of the dramas will go away
Even then who wants to fly half way around the world then change planes when Emirates or Singapore will take you there directly.
It may be radical idea, but get rid of the internationals from the capital cities and we will solve the problem for a few decades.
No one is offering an alternate solution as far as I can see.
I can remember going to FAC meetings in SY and discussing the second airport for Sydney. There are probably domestic Captains who don't know what FAC was. This bull$h!t has been going on way too long.
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A simple short term solution is to open the damn airport 24/7. Time for whatever parasite is in government come September to display testicular fortitude and remove the curfew. Done, dusted, end of it. This will buy a little time and in the short term help cash flow into our economy rather than down the ****ter and out to Bondi beach as currently happens.
Then, while the Pollies have their plums glistening out in the open they can pump a billion dollars or two into the Bruce Highway in Queensland where more hundreds of millions of economic benefit goes down the ****ter annually due to the pathetic state of this infrastructure.
Key infrastructures bringing economies to their knees due to mismanagement by spineless non committal successive governments, labor and liberal.
Sunfish, I also like your posts as a rule, but..... Your last post was manic old friend. Now I don't live in Sydney, never have and never will, but dissing Sydney because AN shat on your project is crazy. Peter Ables was a knob, best to blame him for AN's burial
Then, while the Pollies have their plums glistening out in the open they can pump a billion dollars or two into the Bruce Highway in Queensland where more hundreds of millions of economic benefit goes down the ****ter annually due to the pathetic state of this infrastructure.
Key infrastructures bringing economies to their knees due to mismanagement by spineless non committal successive governments, labor and liberal.
Sunfish, I also like your posts as a rule, but..... Your last post was manic old friend. Now I don't live in Sydney, never have and never will, but dissing Sydney because AN shat on your project is crazy. Peter Ables was a knob, best to blame him for AN's burial
Yeah you are right Cactus. I also shouldn't respond to trolls like Meaney.
For the record, the Two airline policy was killed by Robin Hocking who wrote the book "some aspects of Australia's Two Airline policy" that was the basis for the government axing the policy.
Some economic aspects of Australia's two airline policy / by Robin Hocking. - Version details - Trove
I was at school with Robin and provided a little "deep background" for one or two aspects of his book. He was a great wing at Hockey and a good mate. sadly, spinal cancer cut his life way too short.
infant mortality in newly installed components is obviously something Meaney doesn't understand - especially with old style Gyros. The solution to improving service life is often to stop replacing parts.
I shouldn't bag Sydney any more because the problem of poor direct flight access to Brisbane and Melbourne has largely been solved. However the corruption and shysters of Sydney still drag down the rest of the country, and will continue to do so if allowed.
For the record, the Two airline policy was killed by Robin Hocking who wrote the book "some aspects of Australia's Two Airline policy" that was the basis for the government axing the policy.
Some economic aspects of Australia's two airline policy / by Robin Hocking. - Version details - Trove
I was at school with Robin and provided a little "deep background" for one or two aspects of his book. He was a great wing at Hockey and a good mate. sadly, spinal cancer cut his life way too short.
infant mortality in newly installed components is obviously something Meaney doesn't understand - especially with old style Gyros. The solution to improving service life is often to stop replacing parts.
I shouldn't bag Sydney any more because the problem of poor direct flight access to Brisbane and Melbourne has largely been solved. However the corruption and shysters of Sydney still drag down the rest of the country, and will continue to do so if allowed.
