Albanese does nothing on Sydney Airports
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Time, motion and money.
More out of idle curiosity than any real effort to get a grip on how big business and government works I have been dipping into the 'airports' debate from sensible press reports. Seems everyone has 'the solution' to various elements but not a holistic answer. In nearly every solution presented there seems to be someone who gets stiffed and others who win the lottery; meanwhile most major cities grind to a halt, with gridlock, crowded trains etc. etc. I expect back in Cooks time, the very idea of planning a complex transport infrastructure for the masses would earn you a short stay in Bedlam.
The 'problems' at both Sydney and Archerfield seem to stem from this lack of forward planning: an understandable, very human lack of foresight, I expect that the existing issues will be resolved in the 'usual' slow, expensive retrospective manner, few other options. But if there is to be a new airport built is it beyond the reach of the mandarins to plan things so that the supporting infrastructure will become redundant 20 years ahead rather than trying to make that which was time expired 20 years ago suffice. Aye well – it's academic of course, but the articles by Phelan and Sandilands make some tasty food for thought.
The 'problems' at both Sydney and Archerfield seem to stem from this lack of forward planning: an understandable, very human lack of foresight, I expect that the existing issues will be resolved in the 'usual' slow, expensive retrospective manner, few other options. But if there is to be a new airport built is it beyond the reach of the mandarins to plan things so that the supporting infrastructure will become redundant 20 years ahead rather than trying to make that which was time expired 20 years ago suffice. Aye well – it's academic of course, but the articles by Phelan and Sandilands make some tasty food for thought.
The very detailed NSW Business Chamber report in support of the economic case for a range of scenarios for developing the Commonwealth owned Badgerys Creek site overlooks several issues that just about every industry in Australia finds obnoxious.
Australia take too long to do anything.
The deputy PM and Minister for airports and much more, Anthony Albanese also implicitly recognises this in his commitment that a Rudd government, if elected, would start work on ‘a’ second Sydney Airport within a three year term.
Last edited by Kharon; 13th Aug 2013 at 21:52.
The problem Kharon, is that the NSW establishment is totally corrupt as the latest ICAC shenanigans suggest. It has been that way since the Rum Rebellion and it is not a party political thing either, The corruption extends nationally thanks to the strength of the NSW party branchs of Liberal and Labor.
Only ideas that serve their interests (or at least dont conflict with them) will get up.
A second Sydney airport will only get up if:
1. The parties can figure out how to make all Australians pay for it, not just the Sydney beneficiaries.
2. It can be contracted out in a way that maximises returns for the Sydney push and no one else.
3. It can be used as a tool to further advance NSW interests and disadvantage the rest of the country in the process. - For example route all domestic traffic through a Badgerys creek and keep international at KSA. That puts a barrier to international arrivals from leaving Sydney without a connection to Badgery's - which I would make as slow and expensive as possible.
To put it another way, this is about competition between the States, and they are watching closely.
Only ideas that serve their interests (or at least dont conflict with them) will get up.
A second Sydney airport will only get up if:
1. The parties can figure out how to make all Australians pay for it, not just the Sydney beneficiaries.
2. It can be contracted out in a way that maximises returns for the Sydney push and no one else.
3. It can be used as a tool to further advance NSW interests and disadvantage the rest of the country in the process. - For example route all domestic traffic through a Badgerys creek and keep international at KSA. That puts a barrier to international arrivals from leaving Sydney without a connection to Badgery's - which I would make as slow and expensive as possible.
To put it another way, this is about competition between the States, and they are watching closely.
Thread Starter
Airports should be a local government issue. The whole system got buggered up by letting a federal government manage it. If there was no federal government intervention you would have genuine competition between cities and airports which is how it was supposed to be. Funnily enough by letting Canberra control airports has made this country a joke in aviation. Hold for 50 minutes due to no infrastructure AND get slapped with a carbon tax....
If there was genuine state and local government power half the problems would go away as towns would sieze the opportunity. By letting Canberra control everything we end up with the circus that is Sydney Airport.
If there was genuine state and local government power half the problems would go away as towns would sieze the opportunity. By letting Canberra control everything we end up with the circus that is Sydney Airport.
The first thing to be done to reduce congestion in Sydney is to stop carting people to Sydney against their will merely to make connections with ongoing flights. We need direct international connections to each State capital.
If connections are unavoidable then make them through Melbourne or Brisbane where there is no capacity constraint.
To put that another way, junk the "Sydney International Gateway" myth.
If connections are unavoidable then make them through Melbourne or Brisbane where there is no capacity constraint.
To put that another way, junk the "Sydney International Gateway" myth.
Last edited by Sunfish; 14th Aug 2013 at 21:16.
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Sunfish, I understand what you are saying but have you actually looked at flight schedules recently?
Qantas has 50% of it's London via Dubai traffic from Melbourne, plus daily A380 flights to LA, plus flights to Asia. Domestically you can fly to all the other capitals without going through Sydney. Many other international airlines go direct to Melbourne.
I am not sure what you actually want to change?
Qantas has 50% of it's London via Dubai traffic from Melbourne, plus daily A380 flights to LA, plus flights to Asia. Domestically you can fly to all the other capitals without going through Sydney. Many other international airlines go direct to Melbourne.
I am not sure what you actually want to change?
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or Brisbane where there is no capacity constraint.
Thread Starter
If connections are unavoidable then make them through Melbourne or Brisbane where there is no capacity constraint.
Melbourne too can struggle at the morning peak and not unusual to see internationals holding for a bay.
If you want to make either of those airports any busier you either have to do it in the middle of the night, or build some proper hub airports.
Diverting traffic away from Sydney at the moment would only increase the traffic holding and delays. BNE is struggling now, let alone with more daytime traffic.
Qantas boss Alan Joyce has ramped up calls for whoever wins the federal election to build Sydney's second airport, saying to not take action would devastate the national economy and leave Australia languishing in the so-called Asian century.
Mr Joyce's comments came after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott dodged or delayed answering the question during Sunday night's leaders debate.
The chief executive of Australia's biggest airline said a firm commitment was needed on the project, which has been in the pipeline since the late 1980s when the federal government spent $170 million acquiring the land at Badgerys Creek in Sydney's west.
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"It's been 20, 30, 40 years that we have been discussing this. Now it's time to take action," Mr Joyce said.
"Every time I go to China I am blown away by what happens over there. They are building an airport every 24 days, whereas it's taking us 24 years at least to decide about this airport.
"If we do not speed up how we do these things we will be left behind, and I hope a decision will be made soon after the election."
Speaking at a lunch in Melbourne on Wednesday, Mr Joyce said the land at Badgerys Creek was waiting to be developed and the time for debating the project was over.
"By 2025 we will need the airport. It'd be damaging to the NSW, the Sydney economy and the national economy if we don't have it. It is a national issue.
"We are big supporters of the Badgerys Creek location. It will create lots of jobs in western Sydney. This should be, and should be seen as, a positive for these communities.
"We, as the largest carrier in Australia, want to make sure we have the right capacity and growth opportunities going forward. A constrained Sydney is not good for anybody, particularly the economy."
Sydney Airport will reach its full capacity 20 years earlier than management predicted, according to a Commonwealth Bank report released last January.
CBA infrastructure analysts Andre Fromyhr and Matt Crowe said in the report that while capacity constraints were not pressing, lengthy construction timetables meant politicians would have to make a decision on the airport soon.
They said that shortly after 2025, Sydney Airport will need new infrastructure, such as a new runway, terminal or second site, in order to meet increased demand.
Mr Rudd distanced himself from the project in Sunday's debate, saying he was from Queensland, not Sydney and that the harbour city didn't have the only airport in the country.
Mr Rudd then performed a backflip on Monday. Despite not nominating a location, he said a re-elected Labor government would turn the first sod on a second airport in the next term.
Meanwhile, Mr Abbott said he would make a decision on the project in a term of government if the Coalition won.
Read more: Time to act on Sydney airport: Qantas
Mr Joyce's comments came after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott dodged or delayed answering the question during Sunday night's leaders debate.
The chief executive of Australia's biggest airline said a firm commitment was needed on the project, which has been in the pipeline since the late 1980s when the federal government spent $170 million acquiring the land at Badgerys Creek in Sydney's west.
Advertisement
"It's been 20, 30, 40 years that we have been discussing this. Now it's time to take action," Mr Joyce said.
"Every time I go to China I am blown away by what happens over there. They are building an airport every 24 days, whereas it's taking us 24 years at least to decide about this airport.
"If we do not speed up how we do these things we will be left behind, and I hope a decision will be made soon after the election."
Speaking at a lunch in Melbourne on Wednesday, Mr Joyce said the land at Badgerys Creek was waiting to be developed and the time for debating the project was over.
"By 2025 we will need the airport. It'd be damaging to the NSW, the Sydney economy and the national economy if we don't have it. It is a national issue.
"We are big supporters of the Badgerys Creek location. It will create lots of jobs in western Sydney. This should be, and should be seen as, a positive for these communities.
"We, as the largest carrier in Australia, want to make sure we have the right capacity and growth opportunities going forward. A constrained Sydney is not good for anybody, particularly the economy."
Sydney Airport will reach its full capacity 20 years earlier than management predicted, according to a Commonwealth Bank report released last January.
CBA infrastructure analysts Andre Fromyhr and Matt Crowe said in the report that while capacity constraints were not pressing, lengthy construction timetables meant politicians would have to make a decision on the airport soon.
They said that shortly after 2025, Sydney Airport will need new infrastructure, such as a new runway, terminal or second site, in order to meet increased demand.
Mr Rudd distanced himself from the project in Sunday's debate, saying he was from Queensland, not Sydney and that the harbour city didn't have the only airport in the country.
Mr Rudd then performed a backflip on Monday. Despite not nominating a location, he said a re-elected Labor government would turn the first sod on a second airport in the next term.
Meanwhile, Mr Abbott said he would make a decision on the project in a term of government if the Coalition won.
Read more: Time to act on Sydney airport: Qantas
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I can't believe that the 3 major capital cities or at least Melbourne and Brisbane didn't expand way back when the sites were still Greenfield sites before everything boomed around them which means everyone is playing
catch up all the time.
Sydney, well plenty has already been said about that.
catch up all the time.
Sydney, well plenty has already been said about that.
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Albo True to Form
The greenies have got to him,
No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au
TRANSPORT Minister Anthony Albanese's bureaucrats have stripped Qantas of three early-morning arrival slots a week for international flights, further restricting Sydney Airport's capacity. The revelation came as John Howard's first transport minister, John Sharp, yesterday backed Badgerys Creek as the best site for a second hub.
High-level sources told The Daily Telegraph Mr Albanese's department had rejected a request from Qantas to keep three flights from Singapore each week arriving before the 6am curfew.
Thirty-five international flights each week are allowed under the Curfew Act to arrive in the "curfew shoulder" period between 5am and 6am, although transport ministers for the past 18 years have limited that to only 24.
Under Mr Albanese's watch, this has now been wound back to 21 - even though each international daily flight into Sydney pumps up to $388 million a year into the economy and creates 5000 jobs.
The Qantas flights used to originate out of London via Singapore, meaning they had to take-off before the Heathrow evening curfew, which resulted in a Sydney arrival time before 6am.
But when Qantas changed these flights to originate from Singapore, the Transport Department insisted in April that they take off later to arrive in Sydney after 6am.
"It means we've effectively lost three slots in the busy morning period,'' an airport source said. "It would have been smarter to keep them coming in earlier because the airport needs more capacity not less.''
High-level sources told The Daily Telegraph Mr Albanese's department had rejected a request from Qantas to keep three flights from Singapore each week arriving before the 6am curfew.
Thirty-five international flights each week are allowed under the Curfew Act to arrive in the "curfew shoulder" period between 5am and 6am, although transport ministers for the past 18 years have limited that to only 24.
Under Mr Albanese's watch, this has now been wound back to 21 - even though each international daily flight into Sydney pumps up to $388 million a year into the economy and creates 5000 jobs.
The Qantas flights used to originate out of London via Singapore, meaning they had to take-off before the Heathrow evening curfew, which resulted in a Sydney arrival time before 6am.
But when Qantas changed these flights to originate from Singapore, the Transport Department insisted in April that they take off later to arrive in Sydney after 6am.
"It means we've effectively lost three slots in the busy morning period,'' an airport source said. "It would have been smarter to keep them coming in earlier because the airport needs more capacity not less.''
No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au
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Wake up call, from Singapore.
Ben Sandilands – Plane Talking - Slowly, but irrepressibly the world is waking up to appalling state of Australian air transport. For a remote large island, dependant on air transport it's stating to become a little embarrassing, being a 'smart' country and all that.
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Lies and deception
The Minister for dribbling manure, Albanese, is a political shyster, liar, evader and spin doctor. The sooner people see that the better. Don't believe a word he says, you would be better off trusting a Somali pirate! (Incidentally Somali pirates are very similar to CASA FOI's! Do they also issue NCN's to non compliant ship operators?)
The only things you will find Albanese caring for in Australian aviation is Qantas and keeping the air quiet over electorate.
Dross
The only things you will find Albanese caring for in Australian aviation is Qantas and keeping the air quiet over electorate.
Dross
"Nothing I repeat nothing, is as important in aviation as safety!
Nifty it just goes to show that even QF will get the flick when it comes to election time and keeping your constituents happy.
However if you don't happen to reside in the seat of Grayndler this is what your likely to get (or not get)
: [YOUTUBE]
or this:
[YOUTUBE]
With that I'll second CW's assessment of the DPM!
However if you don't happen to reside in the seat of Grayndler this is what your likely to get (or not get)
: [YOUTUBE]
or this:
[YOUTUBE]
With that I'll second CW's assessment of the DPM!
Thirty-five international flights each week are allowed under the Curfew Act to arrive in the "curfew shoulder" period between 5am and 6am, although transport ministers for the past 18 years have limited that to only 24.
Perhaps Air China, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, United Airlines and Virgin Australia or if you want to base it on noise footprints then make it A380's and B787's only.
Brisbane has traffic holding it on it all day,
Can someone remind me what is the reason behind getting a slot time and why we go through the process for zip result.
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Greenies?!? Since when have greenies got anything to do with the Sydney curfew?
Grayndler out of the mix for the Greens
Last edited by TIMA9X; 21st Aug 2013 at 06:24.