Emirates busts Sydney curfew 3 times

[YPJT]

Old Un, I'd suggest it's not so much a case of urban creep around the perimeter of the airport and associated arrival and departure tracks, rather a demographic shift to more cashed up middle classes who make up, as Sunfish referred to "The Sydney Push"

[Animalclub]

Is it possible that banning EK from Sydney for even a short time would be the cause of a few, maybe many, people losing their job?

EK would still be able to operate out of BNE and MEL... offer SYDMEL and SYDBNE at subsidised airfares... and still beat the fares of other airlines to Europe. Many posters on this forum believe that lower air fares win passengers.

[Oktas8]

What if a controller just said "No I cannot let you takeoff as I will be knowingly allowing you to break the law"?

It's good that ATC are not policemen / women. Let ATC do traffic management, and let the govt or CASA do enforcement.

How about keeping the existing system with large fines, but applying the money to subsidise insulation in the airport suburbs. Probably impossible to administer though!

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Usually past practices of other Airports around the globe that operate to similar curfews was to use a "common sense approach" in times of adverse weather and provide operators dispensations to depart during times of curfew to clear the backlog of flights.
Sadly though, Sydney Airport does not and will not contemplate operating with this flexibility. (Probably mainly due to misinformed Government numb nuts intervening and trying to kick political goals in their electorates.)

As mentioned before, all this just adds to Australia continuing down that slope of becoming more and more a Global Joke in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Sydney airport continues to consolidate these views.

[Slasher]

If I was in the same position I'd be getting the Company to
authorise me IN WRITING (as a get-out-of-jail-free card) to
bust Sinney's bull**** curfew restrictions. I'm sure the M-rat
capt would've done the same.

I thank I don't fly into that psychotic place anymore.

[Capt Fathom]

Is Sydney the only place in the world with a night curfew?

[Slasher]

No, there are many others (like KHH for example) that have a
curfew, but have a commonsense approach esp in matters of
weather or other delays that aren't the fault of the airline nor
the crew.

[Conductor]

Perhaps if they also made the issue one of strict liability for the PIC

That's a big negative Ghostrider.

I think someone has hijacked Keg's login because I'm sure he knows how slippery that slope is, just like ad-astra said.

[maggot]

frankfurt has one now/getting one soon.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

No one has said Australia is an "economic" laughing stock (we are very lucky thankfully to the mining sector),

Just a "political and over governed" laughing stock.

Mind you though as far as economics go I still wouldn't allow Wayne Swan to manage my kids savings account!

[Keg]

Perhaps I should have added a !

It's an interesting situation though. I recall QF telling me innumerable times over the years that you need to be both safe AND legal. Were EK legal in this circumstance? The PIC knows he isn't breaking any aviation laws but he's still breaking the law.

Again, I think it says an interesting thing about an organisation's culture when they're quite happy to break the law and cop the fine because that's the cheapest/ easiest thing to do.

[Ken Borough]

CORPORATE COWBOYS

Emirates are no more than Corporate Cowboys who obviously have scant respect for the Rule of Law, if they have heard of it. Like it or not, there is a curfew in force at Sydney, and while it's still in place, carriers have to work within its confines. If ANY carrier is unprepared to observe our laws, they should either move on or be moved on.

A fine against EK would be quite meaningless. A stiffer sanction such as suspension of landing rights would be a more sensible penalty - there would certainly not be breaches of the curfew were that penalty imposed for flagrant disregard of our laws. And, who knows waht else EK are failing to observe???

[ohallen]

That's fine because atleast prima facie there is a breach of the law.

Should the same sanctions apply to Jetstar if it is proven that they have breached employment laws?

[scandistralian]

I am sure we will be having a very different conversation when one day somebody elects to rush a departure during inclement weather just to meet curfew requirements.

Those of you who have brought up "practical applications" of curfews abroad have hit the nail on the head. This is a professional pilots/aviation forum and the real issue being discussed here should be under which (if any) conditions there should be an automatic extension to the curfew granted. Is there anyone on this forum with practical experience of applying for an extension to operate outside the curfew? It'd be interesting to hear how the process evolved.

Some of the myopic/parochial comments about Emirates and making pilots liable make me cringe, no wonder my pom mates now refer to us as "whinging Aussie's..."

[adsyj]

scandi

I agree very well said.

[NoseGear]

Noise or...?

A few years back we taxi out for a 16R departure and while waiting at the hold we hear a conversation between an Etihad A340-600 on finals and SYD tower...
Tower - Etihad xxx....you're not going to land before curfew
Etihad - we have applied for a dispensation
Tower- it won't get here in time, say your intentions
Etihad (now at around 5-700ft) I guess we are going around

The question is, if it was about noise, whats worse? A TOGA go around from 500ft or an idle reverse landing?

Noise...? I don't think so.

[Capt Fathom]

The question is, if it was about noise, whats worse? A TOGA go around from 500ft or an idle reverse landing?

The general public (the ones who vote in our pollies) don't understand the subtle difference between idle reverse landings and TOGA go-arounds!

They just don't want aircraft landing or taking off during the curfew! The law is there to re-enforce that. No politician will risk their seat and go against that!

[Metro man]

Use the fines to pay for double glazing and noise insulation for those who complain. Problem solved.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Those of you who have brought up "practical applications" of curfews abroad have hit the nail on the head. This is a professional pilots/aviation forum and the real issue being discussed here should be under which (if any) conditions there should be an automatic extension to the curfew granted. Is there anyone on this forum with practical experience of applying for an extension to operate outside the curfew? It'd be interesting to hear how the process evolved.

Curfews aren't a bad thing, it's just the way it's managed in Sydney is the issue. Give an example of a common sense policy. If an aircraft goes tech or the aircraft is delayed due operational reasons and can't make curfew, then no dispensation. However, if for environmental reasons traffic flow is hampered or the Airport is closed for a period of time then common sense would dictate that the airport would remain open to accomadate the quota of scheduled flight for that day. Quite simple really, and it's not like these events are daily so the Pollies save face as they have still maintained a curfew in Sydney.

As mentioned in another post about TOGA. I remember doing the 1 coming in from BKK and scheduled to land after 5am on 34L. Tower was giving 10kts tail so we made the approach, needless to say the tailwind was significantly more so around we went waking up the whole bloody neighbourhood.

Little things like this example make a mockery of Sydney's curfew policy as far as noise goes.

[sunnySA]

"Curfew restrictions exist, penalties may apply, advise intentions".

correction "Curfew restrictions exist, penalties apply, advise intentions"

I understood that there were two operators who departed RWY 16R on the night of 8-Jan without a dispensation, CX and EK.