QANTAS Exodus
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FACT. There are 111 pilots on the longhaul bidding list [A380,744 and 767] who are aged 60 or over
Just a guess but I'd bet there are more than 50 on the 737 over 60.
Ah, sorry TT. My typo. The 111 over 60s includes 380, 330, 744, 767.
Wingspar, when one Captain retires, there is no compounding. One F/O is promoted, one S/O is promoted, one new hire.
However, when a fleet increase occurs, for every new Captain two F/Os are required, one for the increase and one to replace the one promoted, then up to four S/Os are required, two to replace the S/Os promoted plus zero, one or two new ones to make up the new crew, depending on type of flying. Fleet increases are a lot more important to the juniorati than retirements, in other words.
Trev at QF is going to have a huge problem over the next couple of years balancing the numbers. No way can they ever get it right with the massive fleet changes underway and they have no way of controlling when and how many pilots from what type and rank are going to walk, [other than restricting the numbers going on LWOP]. There is only so much that can be done with Divisors and assigned leave and the cancellation thereof.
It is going to be a shemozzle and they will be yearning for a bit of engagement and some stabillity before this is over. Fasten seat belts.
Karma trumps hubris, every time.
Wingspar, when one Captain retires, there is no compounding. One F/O is promoted, one S/O is promoted, one new hire.
However, when a fleet increase occurs, for every new Captain two F/Os are required, one for the increase and one to replace the one promoted, then up to four S/Os are required, two to replace the S/Os promoted plus zero, one or two new ones to make up the new crew, depending on type of flying. Fleet increases are a lot more important to the juniorati than retirements, in other words.
Trev at QF is going to have a huge problem over the next couple of years balancing the numbers. No way can they ever get it right with the massive fleet changes underway and they have no way of controlling when and how many pilots from what type and rank are going to walk, [other than restricting the numbers going on LWOP]. There is only so much that can be done with Divisors and assigned leave and the cancellation thereof.
It is going to be a shemozzle and they will be yearning for a bit of engagement and some stabillity before this is over. Fasten seat belts.
Karma trumps hubris, every time.
Last edited by Captain Gidday; 10th Nov 2011 at 00:19.
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One senior captain retiring, on a fleet with stable aircraft numbers, can generate many more than one promotion on type.
That only works however, on an airline that isn't shrinking.
That only works however, on an airline that isn't shrinking.
AustralianMade
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I hope this brings a wry smile
This came in the email today from a non-pilot, it made me smile and I was glad to see that someone found a humourous way to make a good point.
TT & Gidday...
A small point of order;
There is also more than one approaching-65yo current-captain asking for and being given FO slots variously on the A330 and A380.
It's a "dogs breakfast" challenge for:
- deconflicting the over-60yo crew complements by the company,
- predicting progression in up the ranks for non-captains, and
- predicting the true retirement point for these pilots who might, for example, more readily lose their medical straight after completing an expensive endorsement.
EEO (ie non-ageism), GFC and the reduction in the value of superannuation are all players in what's going on. Some appear not to be able to retire; poor sods.
There is also more than one approaching-65yo current-captain asking for and being given FO slots variously on the A330 and A380.
It's a "dogs breakfast" challenge for:
- deconflicting the over-60yo crew complements by the company,
- predicting progression in up the ranks for non-captains, and
- predicting the true retirement point for these pilots who might, for example, more readily lose their medical straight after completing an expensive endorsement.
EEO (ie non-ageism), GFC and the reduction in the value of superannuation are all players in what's going on. Some appear not to be able to retire; poor sods.
Thread Starter
Captain Gidday.
Sorry, my numbers came from a manager some time ago.
Guess I need to be even more doubtful than I am already. Cheers.
Sorry, my numbers came from a manager some time ago.
Guess I need to be even more doubtful than I am already. Cheers.
short flights long nights
People actually WANT to fly over 65???!!! Dont these guys just want to enjoy a well earned retirement, spend some time with the wife (wives
) and grandkids and enjoy life?? "You are holding on too tight Mav"
) and grandkids and enjoy life?? "You are holding on too tight Mav"
short flights long nights
Ah..now it all becomes clear...just loving to fly to help their.......???? 
(I know the end to this sentence but in fear of a ban I wont type it)
(I know the end to this sentence but in fear of a ban I wont type it)
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Both individuals have plenty of cash, they just 'love' flying
I think if they state that they really don't need the money and love airline flying so much, it should mean a mandatory re-assignment to B767 F/O. That will comply fully with their situation.
Mo...
Not strictly true. One has been supporting family in crisis through the GFC & health issues, and now has insufficient funds to retire; not a pleasant thing to consider. No doubt the other has reasons too.
I trust they'll 'get it sorted' sooner rather than later, with enough time to enjoy at least some retirement.
I trust they'll 'get it sorted' sooner rather than later, with enough time to enjoy at least some retirement.
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Well in that individual's case, the "plenty of cash" and "loves to fly" allegation is a bit misleading! If you're only working due to circumstances beyond your control, well that's another problem all together and highly unfortunate.
Nevertheless, there are certainly those who fall into the "can't think of what else to do" category. I have met several of them personally. They should go to the 76'.
Nevertheless, there are certainly those who fall into the "can't think of what else to do" category. I have met several of them personally. They should go to the 76'.
If they love to fly, why did they go to the Dugong? There's minimal manipulation of the flight controls on that thing.
It's more likely they chose the Dugong because it has the highest F/O salary.
Back to thread, it would be great if someone could post the actual numbers of pilots that have left Qantas this year and how many of those were retirements or LWOP.
It's more likely they chose the Dugong because it has the highest F/O salary.
Back to thread, it would be great if someone could post the actual numbers of pilots that have left Qantas this year and how many of those were retirements or LWOP.
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I actually find it quite sad in a sense that there are individuals who end up at retirement age having developed no interests, no plans, and no desires outside of airline flying.
You are too transparent like others before you, you want the old fogies to move on so that you can have their jobs. When you get to their age you'll probably be a strong defender of your right to continue.
Totally agree FM. If someone wants to have a sad and twisted life, it is no-ones business but their own. And occsionally the poor sap F/O who has to help dig them out of a hole once in a while, as no doubt, they once complained about doing themselves.
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I flew to 65 fella's, had to, had a little interference with the bank balance during 89, four sprogs to feed and educate, sometimes you have to. But after 65, you have had enough, 0200 wake up calls don't excite you anymore, your plumbing could be giving you trouble, and your undercarriage is not what it used to be, in fact nothing is. I used to look with envy at blokes fishing in Botany Bay, and thought stuff this, I am going fishing, never regretted it, the missus found it hard to have me home under her feet, but the dogs loved it, go for it. The other thing to consider is that for some reason some pilots fall of their perch, within a couple of years of retiring, and more are getting dementia early, that is a worry, you need to have some life before you go around the twist.
I really don't think any older pilots are bidding to be F/O on the A380. After all they must be under age 65 to fly international and, AFAIK, the Blunderbus does quite a bit of that.
As I hear it, there have been a few bid to be B737 F/O as they approach 65.
As I hear it, there have been a few bid to be B737 F/O as they approach 65.