QANTAS Exodus
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Can't see Joyce getting too worried about "losing" pilots to LWOP. On the other hand, mass resignations and pilots not returning at the end of LWOP probably would concern management. Hence the interest in the ratio or LWOP vs resignations.
Last edited by dutch_oven; 8th Nov 2011 at 09:22. Reason: spelling
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Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
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dutch_oven, fair question. LWOP masks mask managements problems in the short term - gets excess pilots off the books for up to 3 years. But long term I don't see them pilots returning, despite what management might hope.
The sheer contempt with which they have been treated, to then be based in Asia to fly for RedQ? Without offering AU bases, they are just another Asian carrier, apart from money, what advantages they offer former employees?
Pilots won't be coming back to the Qantas group to be based in Asia.
The sheer contempt with which they have been treated, to then be based in Asia to fly for RedQ? Without offering AU bases, they are just another Asian carrier, apart from money, what advantages they offer former employees?
Pilots won't be coming back to the Qantas group to be based in Asia.
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OK you are a Qantas pilot working for the best and safest airline in the world. For years you have told your mates that went to Emirates how crazy they were and how you are living the dream and you feel even sorry for them having to live in the "desert". A short search of "flying careers at Qantas" on "U tube" you end up watching an interesting take on how great Qantas really is.
BUT...
By staying at Qantas you will probably be out of a job, and leaving early you beat the masses.....
BUT
You will still end up being junior to the mates the have been bagging out for years...DILEMMA hey??
What should I do?!? All help much appreciated
BUT...
By staying at Qantas you will probably be out of a job, and leaving early you beat the masses.....
BUT
You will still end up being junior to the mates the have been bagging out for years...DILEMMA hey??
What should I do?!? All help much appreciated
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If you're too proud to be junior to your mates, then just stay at Qantas. If you're 100% sure you're job will be gone soon at QF, and you think EK is the best option, then honestly who cares if your mates give you a hard time, maybe you deserve it after what you said to them, and end of the day if you still count them as mates nothing to be worried about.
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Exodus???........turn it up!!!
100 odd guys/gals leaving mainline equates to no more than 5% of the pilot body, of which I might add the majority have gone on LWOP. Had that not been an option I would argue the numbers would be nowhere near that.
We all have to make our own decisions but I'm starting to appreciate how dangerous "group think" can be!!!
HD.
100 odd guys/gals leaving mainline equates to no more than 5% of the pilot body, of which I might add the majority have gone on LWOP. Had that not been an option I would argue the numbers would be nowhere near that.
We all have to make our own decisions but I'm starting to appreciate how dangerous "group think" can be!!!
HD.
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You're right happydriver, it is far from an exodus.
I do believe if many second officers had some real jet time, they would consider leaving QF.
I also think there will be a large number of retirements over the next 3 years.
The fact is the pilot group has never been so disillusioned with management.
The only rational advice to any pilot would be to make the best of your own situation for yourself and your family.
If you can avoid burning your bridges, do so. (LWOP)
It may yet prove to be an opportunity for those who choose to stay and also those who choose to leave.
Remember it is your career and hopefully it will last longer than the present management cycle.
I do believe if many second officers had some real jet time, they would consider leaving QF.
I also think there will be a large number of retirements over the next 3 years.
The fact is the pilot group has never been so disillusioned with management.
The only rational advice to any pilot would be to make the best of your own situation for yourself and your family.
If you can avoid burning your bridges, do so. (LWOP)
It may yet prove to be an opportunity for those who choose to stay and also those who choose to leave.
Remember it is your career and hopefully it will last longer than the present management cycle.
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We all have to make our own decisions but I'm starting to appreciate how dangerous "group think" can be!!!
Are you kidding? How many of these do you recognise:
Jet* won't have more than 30 A/C
QF won't pull out of the Gold Coast
Jet* won't compete with mainline
We don't plan on Jet* flying internationally
Jetconnect will fly only domestically in NZ
We will take delivery of 20 A380s
The A330s will return to mainline
Shall I go on?
I've spent the last 7 or so years thinking "it can't get any worse." For all of those years, it has. Every year. If you're happy exactly where you are in QF, working a bit harder for about the same $, then you're probably going to be OK because there WILL be a lot of retirements and a LOT more of your colleagues will go. But don't tell yourself it's going to get better. Past performance is usually a pretty good indicator of future performance.
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I would have thought that any company would be unlucky to have the last two CEO's that QF has had. Nothing will change until there is an ousting of the current CEO and Chairman.
Strange as it may seem, there are some companies who can evolve without alienating the entire workforce, loyal customers and the govt of the day and eventually thrive.
It is just that the current incumbents don't seem to understand those skills or have a desire to learn them.
While they are there, not one employee group is safe from their follies.
Strange as it may seem, there are some companies who can evolve without alienating the entire workforce, loyal customers and the govt of the day and eventually thrive.
It is just that the current incumbents don't seem to understand those skills or have a desire to learn them.
While they are there, not one employee group is safe from their follies.
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TineeTim I hear you brother.....as a matter of fact I heard all that the other night at fatty's, then again down at the cave and would you believe I even had the "lovely" girls upstairs at insomnia tell me how unattractive I've become since the grounding of the fleet and if I would mind clearing off so that a real pilot (Insert EK/BA) may come along and sweep them all off their feet...
Do you get my drift on "group think".......anyway I don't want to be accused of thread drift, so just to reiterate my beef is with the thread being titled qantas exodus of which there is clearly NOT....well not at present anyway.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do mate. Stay or go I'm rooting for all of us!!!!
HD.
Do you get my drift on "group think".......anyway I don't want to be accused of thread drift, so just to reiterate my beef is with the thread being titled qantas exodus of which there is clearly NOT....well not at present anyway.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do mate. Stay or go I'm rooting for all of us!!!!
HD.
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HD
Sorry mate, no I didn't catch your meaning.
'I see', said the blind man. You're definitely right. Heard the other day there are a bunch 'worried' they might miss out on a spot.....
And, sorry if I came across as aggressive to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed off. F***ing pissed off, but not at my pilot mates. Cheers
Sorry mate, no I didn't catch your meaning.
'I see', said the blind man. You're definitely right. Heard the other day there are a bunch 'worried' they might miss out on a spot.....
And, sorry if I came across as aggressive to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed off. F***ing pissed off, but not at my pilot mates. Cheers
As mentioned earlier, the numbers that are leaving now is a result of management actions prior to the grounding. I would hazard to guess that there are pilots who have now reassessed their position as a result of management's recent actions. I would also guess that the outcome of the negotiation/arbitration will push even more towards the same decision.
Emirates are obviously banking on this evidenced by the recent announcement of more road shows.
Emirates are obviously banking on this evidenced by the recent announcement of more road shows.
If you are going to come to Emirates the sooner you get here the better. They are looking to add somewhere towards a thousand pilots next year, so to get in ahead of that wave will probably save a few years to command!
So it's called an exodus at Qantas, but any other airline it would be called pilot attrition. QF has now joined the ranks of other airlines where pilots are leaving for pastures anew.
Wake up and realise that you have now joined the global airline stage, where you are given a job, not a career! Every other airline has experienced this for years, why do you think QF management will be concerned??
Every exit makes way for a cheaper alternative, in Asia they are lowering their pilot costs through attrition!
Wake up and realise that you have now joined the global airline stage, where you are given a job, not a career! Every other airline has experienced this for years, why do you think QF management will be concerned??
Every exit makes way for a cheaper alternative, in Asia they are lowering their pilot costs through attrition!
Not many retirements
438
'I also think there will be a large number of retirements over the next 3 years'
I can't see it.
A few have/will go after the crap management just pulled.
otherwise I think there will be few retirements over the next few years as there was not 'much' recruitment around 30-40 years ago for many retirements to be coming up now.
Alot of those around retirement age have already gone over the last few years.
Just my thought.
'I also think there will be a large number of retirements over the next 3 years'
I can't see it.
A few have/will go after the crap management just pulled.
otherwise I think there will be few retirements over the next few years as there was not 'much' recruitment around 30-40 years ago for many retirements to be coming up now.
Alot of those around retirement age have already gone over the last few years.
Just my thought.
Thread Starter
Kookaburra, QF has about 250 pilots over the age of 60. Some of those won't go to 65, some are nearly 65 and are facing the prospect of shorthaul or retirement. I reckon most of that number will be gone in the next 3 years.
MYTH
FACT. There are 111 pilots on the longhaul bidding list [A380,744 and 767] who are aged 60 or over, including quite a lot of F/Os and a couple of S/Os. That is about 7% of the longhaul workforce. So, unless there are a helluva lot of 737 pilots over 60 [I don't have access to that data to calculate those numbers] the statement "QF has about 250 pilots over the age of 60" is unlikely to be true. MYTH BUSTED
Source : Longhaul pilots' details as displayed in Bidbook. I excluded a couple of simulator instructors on the list who are not coming back to line flying. It is laborious to count, but any pilot with access to the bidding files can check for themselves.
QF has about 250 pilots over the age of 60
Source : Longhaul pilots' details as displayed in Bidbook. I excluded a couple of simulator instructors on the list who are not coming back to line flying. It is laborious to count, but any pilot with access to the bidding files can check for themselves.
IMHO when the settlement happens, negotiated or not, those that were hanging on might not like the new environment.
Sure the over 60's might not amount to much but most are Captains and for every retiring Captain leaves a compounding number of F/O and even more so S/O vacancies.
With numbers starting to get tight now watch the good 'ol QF stuff it up again and be left short!
Impossible to think but historically a proven thing unfortunately.
Sure the over 60's might not amount to much but most are Captains and for every retiring Captain leaves a compounding number of F/O and even more so S/O vacancies.
With numbers starting to get tight now watch the good 'ol QF stuff it up again and be left short!
Impossible to think but historically a proven thing unfortunately.