AIPA President Drops the ball on Lateline 31/10/2011
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ALI MOORE: But does a Qantas pilot earn a lot more to fly the same aircraft than a Jetstar pilot?
BARRY JACKSON: Not necessarily. I mean, it's apples and pears, I guess, because Jetstar doesn't run A-380s. On the A-330, it's similar.
ALI MOORE: What, similar wage rates?
BARRY JACKSON: Similar wage rates. And in fact some Jetstar pilots are earning more than Qantas pilots at the moment because they're working harder. So it depends on how much work is done.
BARRY JACKSON: Not necessarily. I mean, it's apples and pears, I guess, because Jetstar doesn't run A-380s. On the A-330, it's similar.
ALI MOORE: What, similar wage rates?
BARRY JACKSON: Similar wage rates. And in fact some Jetstar pilots are earning more than Qantas pilots at the moment because they're working harder. So it depends on how much work is done.
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Well , I disagree with most posters , Barry comes across as a honest , genuine bloke . He can look the at the camera without shifting his eyes unlike our mate from the ALAEA . I thought he did ok , did not rant threaten or abuse anyone . Well done Barry.
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So Barry dropped the ball hey?
Did he word all his responses as well as could be? Maybe not.
Did he articulate things from an employee's perspective as best as possible? Maybe not.
Did he at least have the balls to defend his troops, to try his best to explain things from a workforce perspective, did he try to remain professional while placed in a position where every word, movement and facial twitch is analysed by the enemy???? Absolutely !!!
So you know what, he has my support, and he has the support of many members. Perhaps those who are so critical of his performance would like to step up to the plate and have a go themselves?
Did he word all his responses as well as could be? Maybe not.
Did he articulate things from an employee's perspective as best as possible? Maybe not.
Did he at least have the balls to defend his troops, to try his best to explain things from a workforce perspective, did he try to remain professional while placed in a position where every word, movement and facial twitch is analysed by the enemy???? Absolutely !!!
So you know what, he has my support, and he has the support of many members. Perhaps those who are so critical of his performance would like to step up to the plate and have a go themselves?
It's all about the message!
You can't blame the Union reps, there's so much going on, so many side issues and so much confusion.
What you have to do, and I'm sure your Union leaders are looking at it, is to decide on ONE message ... and then try and sell it.
Qantas is doing it ... we have the right to run our business and we need to reduce costs to run it at a profit.. Much of the public agree with this, and the corporate world certainly does. In fact, logically, who wouldn't agree with it?
How do you counter that message?
First, get rid of all the peripheral messages ... like we deserve a wage increase because of how well we work, or how we do it better than anyone else. We all feel like that.
For me, this is the message ....
Yes, corporations, in principle, have the right to decide their own direction. However, there are certain corporations that have an additional national responsibility?
Qantas, because of how its present entity was formed, and because of the additional responsibilities attached to that creation, is such a corporation.
Although those responsibilities may be more onerous than those of other public companies, they were known or implied, and accepted, at the time of creation.
Those responsibilities mean that Qantas is, in fact, owned not only be the shareholders, but by every Australian.
Yes, the shareholders own the profits, however, every other Australian is entitled to the employment opportunities, the supply opportunities, the training opportunities and the prestige offered by the Qantas brand being wholly based within Australia.
Moving any of those opportunities offshore is stealing from Australian pockets.
What you have to do, and I'm sure your Union leaders are looking at it, is to decide on ONE message ... and then try and sell it.
Qantas is doing it ... we have the right to run our business and we need to reduce costs to run it at a profit.. Much of the public agree with this, and the corporate world certainly does. In fact, logically, who wouldn't agree with it?
How do you counter that message?
First, get rid of all the peripheral messages ... like we deserve a wage increase because of how well we work, or how we do it better than anyone else. We all feel like that.
For me, this is the message ....
Yes, corporations, in principle, have the right to decide their own direction. However, there are certain corporations that have an additional national responsibility?
Qantas, because of how its present entity was formed, and because of the additional responsibilities attached to that creation, is such a corporation.
Although those responsibilities may be more onerous than those of other public companies, they were known or implied, and accepted, at the time of creation.
Those responsibilities mean that Qantas is, in fact, owned not only be the shareholders, but by every Australian.
Yes, the shareholders own the profits, however, every other Australian is entitled to the employment opportunities, the supply opportunities, the training opportunities and the prestige offered by the Qantas brand being wholly based within Australia.
Moving any of those opportunities offshore is stealing from Australian pockets.
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The poor bloke was probably buggered, fair dinkum, these blokes have been up for days, give him a break, he probably needs to hit the sack for a few hours, and then have a few beers, before he goes back to the circus.
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I didn't think he did that bad. He is exhausted I think.
I just got the impression he thinks what most do now. Its pretty much game over.
Qantas have to only drag it out now and then they know that a FWA panel will highly unlikely make the company sign any security clauses. And thats all Joyce wants! Who cares about a 2-3% pay rise when those people wont be around to get it in 5 years and the new asia world workers are on 60% less. I hope i'm wrong mind you, but I think Barry looks a bit like another past defeated pilot/spokesman from 1989.
Good on ya Barry for taking a stand though. Take a bow!
I just got the impression he thinks what most do now. Its pretty much game over.
Qantas have to only drag it out now and then they know that a FWA panel will highly unlikely make the company sign any security clauses. And thats all Joyce wants! Who cares about a 2-3% pay rise when those people wont be around to get it in 5 years and the new asia world workers are on 60% less. I hope i'm wrong mind you, but I think Barry looks a bit like another past defeated pilot/spokesman from 1989.
Good on ya Barry for taking a stand though. Take a bow!
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Barry has been run ragged the last few months. He was flying home the night before the AGM, (actually flying Qantas customers instead of plotting to cynically disrupt them like some others..) and I doubt he has had much sleep in the intervening few days.
He has done everything he could. Give him a break.
He has done everything he could. Give him a break.
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Barry has done a fine job, he must be very very tired, as must the other Union Officials.
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Well, many thanks to TIMA9X for posting the video. If I hadn't watched it, I would have believed the view that MonsterCO1 (IIRC) presented.
I now think that that view was overly harsh and I think that Barry did as well as can be expected for someone in the hot seat, without it being his full time job responding to media interviews (I presume). Yes, there were a few ummms and arrrrghs, but it's not easy (having done it on one or two occasions) being interviewed and thinking on your feet.
So, from me, well done Barry, you did AIPA proud.
I now think that that view was overly harsh and I think that Barry did as well as can be expected for someone in the hot seat, without it being his full time job responding to media interviews (I presume). Yes, there were a few ummms and arrrrghs, but it's not easy (having done it on one or two occasions) being interviewed and thinking on your feet.
So, from me, well done Barry, you did AIPA proud.
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Originally Posted by NewPiper
All union supporters need to realise that 98% of shareholders don't support you. Never fight against the market and we have now seen strong support from the equity market for QF stock and effectively AJ. Best advice is to get back to work and do your jobs, if you don't like it, you know where the door is. Rest assured that on the other side of that door, there are plenty waiting to take your job!!
And it's not "98% of the shareholders". It's "98% of the votes". They're not the same thing. Everybody knows that, and treating us all like idiots will do you no favours. Voting in listed companies' AGMs is heavily skewed towards institutions. 10,000 individual shareholders can vote against a motion because they think it's a disgrace, but a couple of big institutions can wipe that vote totally off the map. It has always been that way.
And institutions generally don't care what a company does, or how it does it, as long as it makes them money, or they are promised it'll make them money.
Yeah yeah, I know. Don't feed the trolls. But it's like seagulls. Sometimes you just can't help but chuck them a couple of chips just for amusement.
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Joyce dreamed of being a pilot when he started work with Ireland's national carrier Aer Lingus in 1988 but failed the vision test.
PS: From what I have seen, I think both Barry Jackson and Richard Woodward have done a great job speaking on behalf of AIPA.
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Barry has been run ragged the last few months. He was flying home the night before the AGM, (actually flying Qantas customers instead of plotting to cynically disrupt them like some others..)
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Capt Kremin,
365 divided by 56 equals 6.5178571 so is it not true that there are approximately 6.5 bid periods in a year therefore your calculations of an annual salary is 4% less than it really is. I understand that there are 56 days in each roster period, is that not true?
there are 6.25 roster periods in a year.
Last edited by clotted; 1st Nov 2011 at 08:36.
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NewPiper,
I put on the uniform as often as the company rosters me to put it on. If the frequency doesn't thrill you talk to the company for their rostering, the regulator for daring to impose legal limits or management for daring to create great inefficiencies in the business to suit an ideology.
I put on the uniform as often as the company rosters me to put it on. If the frequency doesn't thrill you talk to the company for their rostering, the regulator for daring to impose legal limits or management for daring to create great inefficiencies in the business to suit an ideology.
Last edited by What The; 2nd Nov 2011 at 00:47.
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Standard
A ride around te paddock on my educated horse would do you a world of good by the sound of your very graphic post.
How many times have heard this lame excuse ?
My point is.............I do not give to figs about your dispute when travelling.........and probably even less when home.
What have we heard so far ? :
1/ It's not about money...........it's about jobs ! 2,6% pay rise, although far from being astronomical, is a nogo in a 200 Million losing operation. Your share of cost cutting is 8 Million and top this with what Joyce should put into the pot instead of a pay rise which, I'm sure, he will come to regret.
Don't get me wrong. If your airline was able to pay you 1000 000 AUD to fly the A380 and still make money, I would only say lucky you. No pangs of jealousy. I am very happy with my life thank you very much.
Do not make the mistake everyone contributing on this threads and not sharing your opinion is either jealous or a frustrated pilot who didn't make it to Qantas. Just for the record.
Then this spoiled brat claim about better staff travel. I have no recollection of Qantas being greedy with staff travel.
But then, the market seems to have liked the lock out, Qantas share up 4 % and where does the money to buy planes come from ????
You want to keep the jobs in Australia ? Well then, adapt to what the competition does..............or renationalize Qantas and let the tax payer chip in.
You will discover that it takes a lot more than wearing a red tie or make unnecessary PA annoucements, to impress a very fickle travelling public to which I belong.You are surely just as fickle and greedy when it comes to spending your money when you buy a car or whatever.
I want the price to be right, not risk my life and get home on time. Some others than QF seem able to achieve just that at a lower cost.
No one wants to see QF disappear, but it seems you and Joyce are doing a pretty good damn job to achieve just that.
It's high time arbitration sets in and stops you guys from clubbing each other to death.
And please, do not use one event to sugar coat your claims. I would take your remark from Richard de Crespigny............certainly not from you.
A ride around te paddock on my educated horse would do you a world of good by the sound of your very graphic post.
How many times have heard this lame excuse ?
My point is.............I do not give to figs about your dispute when travelling.........and probably even less when home.
What have we heard so far ? :
1/ It's not about money...........it's about jobs ! 2,6% pay rise, although far from being astronomical, is a nogo in a 200 Million losing operation. Your share of cost cutting is 8 Million and top this with what Joyce should put into the pot instead of a pay rise which, I'm sure, he will come to regret.
Don't get me wrong. If your airline was able to pay you 1000 000 AUD to fly the A380 and still make money, I would only say lucky you. No pangs of jealousy. I am very happy with my life thank you very much.
Do not make the mistake everyone contributing on this threads and not sharing your opinion is either jealous or a frustrated pilot who didn't make it to Qantas. Just for the record.
Then this spoiled brat claim about better staff travel. I have no recollection of Qantas being greedy with staff travel.
But then, the market seems to have liked the lock out, Qantas share up 4 % and where does the money to buy planes come from ????
You want to keep the jobs in Australia ? Well then, adapt to what the competition does..............or renationalize Qantas and let the tax payer chip in.
You will discover that it takes a lot more than wearing a red tie or make unnecessary PA annoucements, to impress a very fickle travelling public to which I belong.You are surely just as fickle and greedy when it comes to spending your money when you buy a car or whatever.
I want the price to be right, not risk my life and get home on time. Some others than QF seem able to achieve just that at a lower cost.
No one wants to see QF disappear, but it seems you and Joyce are doing a pretty good damn job to achieve just that.
It's high time arbitration sets in and stops you guys from clubbing each other to death.
And please, do not use one event to sugar coat your claims. I would take your remark from Richard de Crespigny............certainly not from you.
Last edited by Me Myself; 1st Nov 2011 at 10:13.