Pac Blue operating Oz Domestic
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Pac Blue operating Oz Domestic
Virgin are deploying NZ based Pacific Blue crew (both pilots and cabin crew) on Australian domestic sectors due to 'increased demand'. I know there is precedence for overseas based crew operating domestic sectors tacked on the end of international flights but will be interesting to see how DJ manages this one.
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Yes
confirmed for several weeks in Nov/Dec 1 x 737 - 800 .. Air Nz to cover some additional Trans Tasman flying to free up the aircraft. Temp capacity increase for Domestic flying due to extremely high loads.
confirmed for several weeks in Nov/Dec 1 x 737 - 800 .. Air Nz to cover some additional Trans Tasman flying to free up the aircraft. Temp capacity increase for Domestic flying due to extremely high loads.
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Email said that this was intended only for a few weeks over November & December, and that the PB Cabin Crew would be paid a supplementary payment to ensure they received the same amount as Aussie based CC would receive if they were doing the flying. No mention made in regards to duty hour limitations (eg NZ or AU conditions).
Not sure how it looks for the Pilots - if there is similar "gap" payments being made?
Not sure how it looks for the Pilots - if there is similar "gap" payments being made?
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Well I wonder what the Senior VB FOs will think of this???
What ever is said, it is still NZ Labour flying in OZ. A very ballsy move with an EBA negotiation just getting underway.
A real test now for the unions in how they will handle/react to this one...
What ever is said, it is still NZ Labour flying in OZ. A very ballsy move with an EBA negotiation just getting underway.
A real test now for the unions in how they will handle/react to this one...
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Dam right SS,
I've already contacted my union about this and let them know I'm definitely not a fan of this option. And every Virgin Australia pilot should do the same.
Surely if we need the aircraft to increase capacity we are capable of crewing it ourselves. The company put out an e-mail 2 weeks ago asking pilots to nominate DO's, Blank days and Leave to help them increase capacity and maximize aircraft utilization.
Like many VA pilots I was happy to help out and nominated all of my DO's and Blank days for possible call outs. I've had 7 already this roster period and haven't received a single call. On top of this I'm only rostered for 52 hours this RP. And i'm sure i'm not the only one on these sort of hours.
Surely VA can crew this aircraft with VA pilots. smells to me like management trying to see just how far we're prepared to let them go with this kind of arrangement.
What a great way to undo a lot of the good will that existed between JB and the pilot group.
Not a smart move during EBA negotiations. Many pilots will be looking to the unions now to make it hurt!
The Monster!
I've already contacted my union about this and let them know I'm definitely not a fan of this option. And every Virgin Australia pilot should do the same.
Surely if we need the aircraft to increase capacity we are capable of crewing it ourselves. The company put out an e-mail 2 weeks ago asking pilots to nominate DO's, Blank days and Leave to help them increase capacity and maximize aircraft utilization.
Like many VA pilots I was happy to help out and nominated all of my DO's and Blank days for possible call outs. I've had 7 already this roster period and haven't received a single call. On top of this I'm only rostered for 52 hours this RP. And i'm sure i'm not the only one on these sort of hours.
Surely VA can crew this aircraft with VA pilots. smells to me like management trying to see just how far we're prepared to let them go with this kind of arrangement.
What a great way to undo a lot of the good will that existed between JB and the pilot group.Not a smart move during EBA negotiations. Many pilots will be looking to the unions now to make it hurt!
The Monster!
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I've already contacted my union about this and let them know I'm definitely not a fan of this option. And every Virgin Australia pilot should do the same.
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There's always one Muppet that can't proffer or articulate their position on an issue so they'll come out with the usual nugget of stupidity like " run home to mummy", just in case we needed them to demonstrate just how dim they are.
Don't like my opinion Tee Emm, that's fine! great understanding comes from the collision of opposing ideas. It's the pillar on which democracy is based. But don't just come on here, try and slag someone off, and contribute nothing. It doesn't make you appear witty or clever, just incapable of defending your position.
I love my job. And i love my country. It affords me the rights and protections hard won by those that have gone before me to belong to a unified organization that provides me with an outlet to voice my concerns and gives that voice volume and an audience.
I see all the T&C i enjoy in my job as hard won and worthy of being protected. Regardless of weather or not the PB crew are being given some kind of gap payment, I'm sure they are not being afforded all of the protections I am guaranteed under my EBA.
If Virgin is willing to put all Pac Blue crew on the Virgin Australia EBA permanently, then i won't have a problem with this. But until that is the case I'm very much against foreign crew being used on domestic routes for 7 minutes, let alone 7 weeks..................... let alone indefinitely?
That's my position, and I'm willing to stand up and argue it. If you disagree with it then argue yours. I'm sorry but I don't equate doing that to........."running home to mummy", quite the opposite in fact.
The Monster!
Don't like my opinion Tee Emm, that's fine! great understanding comes from the collision of opposing ideas. It's the pillar on which democracy is based. But don't just come on here, try and slag someone off, and contribute nothing. It doesn't make you appear witty or clever, just incapable of defending your position.
I love my job. And i love my country. It affords me the rights and protections hard won by those that have gone before me to belong to a unified organization that provides me with an outlet to voice my concerns and gives that voice volume and an audience.
I see all the T&C i enjoy in my job as hard won and worthy of being protected. Regardless of weather or not the PB crew are being given some kind of gap payment, I'm sure they are not being afforded all of the protections I am guaranteed under my EBA.
If Virgin is willing to put all Pac Blue crew on the Virgin Australia EBA permanently, then i won't have a problem with this. But until that is the case I'm very much against foreign crew being used on domestic routes for 7 minutes, let alone 7 weeks..................... let alone indefinitely?
That's my position, and I'm willing to stand up and argue it. If you disagree with it then argue yours. I'm sorry but I don't equate doing that to........."running home to mummy", quite the opposite in fact.
The Monster!
My understanding is Nz pilots topped up to VA conditions. I personally have no problem with this. It is extraordinary circumstances and i think goodwill towards the company is warranted.
Those with other attitudes, well I dont agree. VA have been v good in recent times and to throw your toys out when one thing upsets you is poor form.
If you remember PB gave us NZ flying at the start of GFC.
Those with other attitudes, well I dont agree. VA have been v good in recent times and to throw your toys out when one thing upsets you is poor form.
If you remember PB gave us NZ flying at the start of GFC.
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"If Virgin is willing to put all Pac Blue crew on the Virgin Australia EBA permanently, then i won't have a problem with this. But until that is the case I'm very much against foreign crew being used on domestic routes for 7 minutes, let alone 7 weeks..................... let alone indefinitely?
"
Love or leave it ...get used to it , this is the first part of the integration process being implemented, the integration manager has been appointed with a view to have all crew flying on the PB contract within the next 12 months.
"
Love or leave it ...get used to it , this is the first part of the integration process being implemented, the integration manager has been appointed with a view to have all crew flying on the PB contract within the next 12 months.
One of the most interesting and what I think professional attributes of Virgin Blue/Virgin Australia/V Australia/Pacific Blue flight crew is that for the most part they avoid running to their computer to tell the world of their "Virgin" woes hoping that the doyens of PPrune will either agree with their opinion (first priority) or solve their problem (not likely)
Alas we have some who either are too lazy to sign up to our own pilots web sites or are too concerned with signing up under their real names on the respective union web sites to discuss the issues that concern them.
Perhaps talking to their peers they might become more informed - though I doubt it.
Jesus wept! What a childish attitude. Like a small child running to Mummy!
I could not have said it any better!
Alas we have some who either are too lazy to sign up to our own pilots web sites or are too concerned with signing up under their real names on the respective union web sites to discuss the issues that concern them.
Perhaps talking to their peers they might become more informed - though I doubt it.
Jesus wept! What a childish attitude. Like a small child running to Mummy!
I could not have said it any better!
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Childish............................................Perhaps, but make no mistake this is how bad things start.
JB certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt, but that said, a good manager would have recognised the potential bush fire that this would create at any time, let alone in the midst of a bargaining period.
Keep in mind, this is exactly what QF are in industrial action over. It started for them when AIPA turned a blind eye to Jetstar. Now look where it has led.
What was needed here was genuine consultation with the unions prior, not just a couple of dismissive emails and one meeting. Followed by a quick and dirty agreement that clearly outlined boundaries etc. Everyone happy and trusting each other.
Good fences make good neighbors. Trusting management has no place in industrial relations. Sure, we should trust them to negotiate in good faith etc, but at the end of the day the serious stuff needs to be in writing. Once everyone has walked away from the table and all that is left is the words on paper, then great intent is useless, it is only the words that are enforceable.
The words around bridging the gap between the two markets are vague and would not mean much if tested. Does it include super for instance? Is there a defined and agreed end to it? There is nothing to say that the Company can't bring another aircraft, then another, then another. If we just accept this one, it will be harder next time. There is no guarantee that the QF mess will be cleaned up by christmas. The demand may get larger and larger, therefore the Company may want more and more PB crews.
The point is that I don't know what the future holds, and neither does any one else. So lets get some agreement between the pilots and the company as to what is reasonable in the short term, and what is required in the long term.
I agree that we should be supporting JB to the hilt, and in return they should be smart enough to engage with the unions and be prepared to put details in writing that are enforceable. Not that anyone expects to have to use that, but it would give comfort to the workforce in knowing that the company is prepared to commit to agreed positions. Trust is hard earned and easily lost. There is a tenuous trust at the moment between management and pilots. Things like this, if handled badly, could blow it apart.
JB certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt, but that said, a good manager would have recognised the potential bush fire that this would create at any time, let alone in the midst of a bargaining period.
Keep in mind, this is exactly what QF are in industrial action over. It started for them when AIPA turned a blind eye to Jetstar. Now look where it has led.
What was needed here was genuine consultation with the unions prior, not just a couple of dismissive emails and one meeting. Followed by a quick and dirty agreement that clearly outlined boundaries etc. Everyone happy and trusting each other.
Good fences make good neighbors. Trusting management has no place in industrial relations. Sure, we should trust them to negotiate in good faith etc, but at the end of the day the serious stuff needs to be in writing. Once everyone has walked away from the table and all that is left is the words on paper, then great intent is useless, it is only the words that are enforceable.
The words around bridging the gap between the two markets are vague and would not mean much if tested. Does it include super for instance? Is there a defined and agreed end to it? There is nothing to say that the Company can't bring another aircraft, then another, then another. If we just accept this one, it will be harder next time. There is no guarantee that the QF mess will be cleaned up by christmas. The demand may get larger and larger, therefore the Company may want more and more PB crews.
The point is that I don't know what the future holds, and neither does any one else. So lets get some agreement between the pilots and the company as to what is reasonable in the short term, and what is required in the long term.
I agree that we should be supporting JB to the hilt, and in return they should be smart enough to engage with the unions and be prepared to put details in writing that are enforceable. Not that anyone expects to have to use that, but it would give comfort to the workforce in knowing that the company is prepared to commit to agreed positions. Trust is hard earned and easily lost. There is a tenuous trust at the moment between management and pilots. Things like this, if handled badly, could blow it apart.
Last edited by Keith Nash; 27th Oct 2011 at 21:29.
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I see no great issue with this as it's purely a temporary solution to increase the bottom line of the company and we all have a vested interest in the company doing this! Plus it leads to a bit more bargaining power when it comes EBA time. As long as they have 'exhausted' all our local crew so to speak, then I see no issue. What I do have an issue with is idiots who create a new profile name to post private company emails on this site.
If you are affected by this issue, or think you might be, then the (closed) forum for company pilots would be a more appropriate place to discuss it.