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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

Old 31st Jan 2012, 04:38
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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From the Flight Deck Consulting link a few posts ago..

"Successful candidates, upon completion of their course will be offered First Officer positions on the ATR 72 with partner airline Skywest. Following a two year internship with Skywest it is expected the cadets will move to the companies fleet of 777-300ER as Cruise First Officers."

IF this is how it eventuates, the good thing here is the opportunity for progression (something others don't seem to offer), but looks like 4-5 years of fairly ordinary income. Not bad though if you are young and single.

And as for Cathay, there is a very interesting thread about life as an SO on Fragrant Harbour Wannabes - worth a read.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 19:10
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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That seems a bit backwards doesn't it? The right hand seat of an ATR in heavy icing conditions and multiple sectors is far harder and requires a lot more for a newbie than being a second officer in the cruise of a jet. Plus the ATR Captain would have a high workload as well. Jet first then turboprop.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 22:05
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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That seems a bit backwards doesn't it?
Maybe, but it's the way of the world: start small & step up by increments. The statement, "jets are easier to fly than props," may be true (sort of), but that kind of attitude is fraught with danger. Having multiple levels of automation at your fingertips in a jet is very helpful, as opposed to man-handling a steam-driven aeroplane with props (not that I'm specifically accusing the ATR of being steam-driven). Flying from ILS to ILS under the umbrella of constant ATC monitoring is certainly easier than ducking & weaving around traffic & weather OCTA & at CTAFs. But what about the fact that things are happening a whole lot faster in just about every phase of flight? What about energy management? What about the fact that it's a lot easier to slow a prop from 250kts inside the terminal area than a heavy jet? What about when you've got your profile looking just right, & all of a sudden ATC reduce your track miles to tighten up the sequence, & suddenly you're scrambling to get it under control?

Jets may be easier to fly than props, so long as it's under optimum conditions. But the increased levels of automation can be just as much a trap as a help (if you don't have a solid understanding of the numerous modes of operation & how they interact), & with regard to the other stuff, as soon as ATC start dicking you around & messing up your game plan, props start looking a whole lot easier to manage.

Whilst I have no problem with cadets, I would not want to see one thrown into any seat of a jet (including the jumpseat) without first having gained some consolidation experience in props. That's just the way it is.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 22:37
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Additional to bunglerats comments is the fact that in australia domestic jets operate into ctafs class G non precision 30m rwy approach aerodrome which just quadrouples the workload. Trying to avoid traffic/airspace whilst getting the approach sorted whilst running two freq is a high workload in a jet. Cadets should be in GA doing charter somewhere but thats another story all together
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 00:24
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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is certainly easier than ducking & weaving around traffic & weather OCTA & at CTAFs
On a 6500 Nm sector you will hit wx at some stage of flight. Most long haul flights cross the ITCZ at some stage.

My experience a few years ago with TFC OCTA was that most pilots dealt with TFC threats very badly. Especially in the West.

Very true about Automation and energy management: High levels of automation, paradoxically, often need a high level of operator knowledge and situational awareness to use properly and safely. Unfortunately, automation is often complex to understand and serves to degrade SA
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 00:27
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with the above. Hence why I was saying being a second officer on inter-continental flights in the cruise only is far better. They wont be required to do as much as a Capt or FO at each end of the flight. Works for QF et al. Cheers
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 02:01
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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It's exactly what QF did for all those years in their very successful cadetship that generally only the most intelligent guys got into.

They flew a metro or the like with skippers, pearl, Airnorth, macair etc and when they had been there for a couple of years with over 1500TT they were offered a backseat in the 744.

Whilst the flying is more complex in a turboprop due to the nature of the flying, they are easy to slow up and don't have a couple of hundred people plus behind you.

You can do amazing things in a turboprop, 1:1 decents, barbers pole at 5nm and land with a stabilized approach.

You can't do that in a jet!
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 03:02
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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I'm betting that within 2-3 more posts this is going to turn into a GA vs. cadetship thread.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 04:15
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

We'll be watching this thread carefully. Any such posts will be deleted.

TID
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 06:35
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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You can do amazing things in a turboprop, 1:1 decents, barbers pole at 5nm and land with a stabilized approach.
None of those things can be done in an ATR however. Its a very different beast to a Dash.

The thing that makes this idea crazy (yes i know qantarse did it before) is that the cadets will be sent to a differnt company for a very short period of time-leading to 'stuff this, ill be on a jet in 2 years time'. Where does that leave the Captains of Skywest who have to fly with this attitude in the RHS?
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 07:55
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

You can do amazing things in a turboprop, 1:1 decents, barbers pole at 5nm and land with a stabilized approach.
Let's say VMO is 240kt. Therefore a 1:1 = 4000fpm @ 240kt. Maintain this to 5nm (or 5000ft for a 1:1 profile), and be stable?

Let's say VREF is 120kt. That would require a ROD of 2000fpm. Can't see how one could be stable if flying a constant 1:1 profile.

What turboprop aircraft would that be in? I really would like to know
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 10:26
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Dunno about TPs, Huge, but I recon the F28 could just about do that

7000'/11 DME was ho hum.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 12:16
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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There has been talk of having 2 types of cadets. Zero time cadets would go straight to the 777 as CFO's and advanced ( ie already have a CPL or higher) would go to the RH of the ATR for a few years and RH seat of the Ejet/737.

As for the ATR captains, if they want to fly jets for Virgin Australia they will have to apply just like every other pilot. No short cuts for them. They had a chance to open doors last year and they blew it!

Last edited by GAFA; 1st Feb 2012 at 12:28.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 14:39
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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As for the ATR captains, if they want to fly jets for Virgin Australia they will have to apply just like every other pilot. No short cuts for them. They had a chance to open doors last year and they blew it!
Awww diddums, fwowing the toys outta the pwam are we? Upset you didn't get to leave those big flight levels to come down and show all the turboprop clowns how skygods do it?

I wasn't aware that the ATR Captains PERSONALLY vetoed any VB pilots moving. Furthermore, I would have put money on those 'doors' being one way, with no progression guaranteed from Skywest to VB.

j3
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Old 23rd Feb 2012, 13:59
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Just saw on the Virgin half year report, they are planning to have thier first batch of cadets selected by the end of this financial year! that means they'll be releasing something soon.wohoo!
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 07:45
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Any idea on what type of cadetship this will be?

I was personally speaking to an employee from one of the training organisations who are fighting for the tender that it was rumored to be an ab-initio cadetship. This organisation at the time was in their 4th round of negotiations with Virgin.

On the other hand I personally spoke to a guy in an australian based aviation consultancy company who said word on the street is its meant to be an advanced cadetship, much like QLinks traineeship.

All rumors though so I guess this post means nothing hahaha.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 19:08
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Biggles

My sources tell me that it is to be an all ab-initio cadet ship initially.

As has been pointed out, Virgin is currently in the process of selecting its training provider with further interviews being held only last week.

First course is programmed to start in the last quarter of 2012.

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The Kelpie
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Old 4th Apr 2012, 13:07
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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updates

just wondering if anyone has any further information regarding this program? Surely they must be close to announcing specifics?
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Old 4th Apr 2012, 20:26
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Very close Luke!!

Watch this space!!

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The Kelpie
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Old 5th Apr 2012, 00:55
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Kelpie - I might be wrong, but you seemed very against the Jetstar cadetship, but seem in favour of the Virgin program. Why?
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