Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: australia
The problem is the different type of cadet systems.
QF cadet system- good C&T system, time spent in the third seat, many sims before moving to a window seat. This gets the tick of approval but those who come from GA will always talk about the family links.
Virgin system - Ok to go onto the ATR before the jet but you would like to think they would use an "advanced cadet" system, but hang on isn't that just someone out of GA anyway. There is no place for a 250hr pilot in the ATR.
(I have flown this type of operation as a captain and somehow managed to survive but I would no wish this onto the traveling public.)
J*- What a joke. This is where a lot of us have problems with the cadet program
- If you have the money, you have the the job.
- under resourced company at ALL levels.
- overloaded C&T system, perhaps relatively inexperienced.
- a cadet program that wont be allowed to fail, due senate enquiry statements, which leads to a so called JUST culture, where the captain will be hung out to dry.
So if we are going to keep going around in circles on this please explain which type of "cadet system" you think is so brilliant.
Note the reference to the system not the individual.
QF cadet system- good C&T system, time spent in the third seat, many sims before moving to a window seat. This gets the tick of approval but those who come from GA will always talk about the family links.
Virgin system - Ok to go onto the ATR before the jet but you would like to think they would use an "advanced cadet" system, but hang on isn't that just someone out of GA anyway. There is no place for a 250hr pilot in the ATR.
(I have flown this type of operation as a captain and somehow managed to survive but I would no wish this onto the traveling public.)
J*- What a joke. This is where a lot of us have problems with the cadet program
- If you have the money, you have the the job.
- under resourced company at ALL levels.
- overloaded C&T system, perhaps relatively inexperienced.
- a cadet program that wont be allowed to fail, due senate enquiry statements, which leads to a so called JUST culture, where the captain will be hung out to dry.
So if we are going to keep going around in circles on this please explain which type of "cadet system" you think is so brilliant.
Note the reference to the system not the individual.
Last edited by toolish; 11th October 2011 at 05:42.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: earth
I don't have a problem with cadets, they are fine. In fact I have flown with many cadets (even as captains), and generally they have been very good. They usually do 5-6 years in the right seat before upgrading anyway, which gives plenty of experience. I'd be more worried about instructors who flogged a 152 in the circuit for 1500 hours then joins a regional and is a captain after 12 months. This IS happening 
I also don't have a problem with cadet programs in general, however I DO have a problem with airlines hiring cadets over qualified regional and GA pilots especially when there are a crapload of them sitting around who would kill to fly a jet. I'm looking at you, Jetstar
I also don't have a problem with cadet programs in general, however I DO have a problem with airlines hiring cadets over qualified regional and GA pilots especially when there are a crapload of them sitting around who would kill to fly a jet. I'm looking at you, Jetstar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Victoria
Jumping the gun?
As was mentioned in a earlier post, haven't Virgin simply sent out a letter to training providers asking them to do a proposal and costing for this Cadet Scheme? I remeber Tiger Australia sent one of those out recently as well.
I know Virgin and Tiger are a world apart but things happen and plans can get scrapped quicker than they are thought up. I would like to say at the earliest this scheme would be 12 to 18 months away at best. Why don't we all sit back and see what the fine print is (if it ever gets off the ground) and then we can all sling mud at each other armed with facts as opposed to speculation.
Lastly, while FNQ, NT and Northern WA continue to have people living there we will continue to have GA. I back this up by the fact that I had a tough time finding a park on the GA apron at Cairns 2 weeks ago.
I know Virgin and Tiger are a world apart but things happen and plans can get scrapped quicker than they are thought up. I would like to say at the earliest this scheme would be 12 to 18 months away at best. Why don't we all sit back and see what the fine print is (if it ever gets off the ground) and then we can all sling mud at each other armed with facts as opposed to speculation.
Lastly, while FNQ, NT and Northern WA continue to have people living there we will continue to have GA. I back this up by the fact that I had a tough time finding a park on the GA apron at Cairns 2 weeks ago.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Here and there
Interesting discussion going on over the last few pages. It seems that once again there are those out to bag the cadets at every opportunity they get. I agree with the comments that you get equally bad pilots from GA/Mil/cadets, and from all three you also get excellent pilots.
Now for a very big generalisation, and it doesn't apply in all cases. My experience in training candidates is that mostly the guys from a cadet background are willing to admit their lack of experience, and want to make up for it by absorbing information like sponges, trying to improve their knowledge and understanding of aviation. They are for the most part very hard working. The average GA (and even ex-regional airline) pilot that comes through the training programme has a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Some have 2-, 3-, 4000, sometimes 5000 hours and lacks basic knowledge in aviation. It makes teaching of more advanced theory concepts fairly difficult, which most ex-cadets seem to not struggle with too much.
Now for a very big generalisation, and it doesn't apply in all cases. My experience in training candidates is that mostly the guys from a cadet background are willing to admit their lack of experience, and want to make up for it by absorbing information like sponges, trying to improve their knowledge and understanding of aviation. They are for the most part very hard working. The average GA (and even ex-regional airline) pilot that comes through the training programme has a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Some have 2-, 3-, 4000, sometimes 5000 hours and lacks basic knowledge in aviation. It makes teaching of more advanced theory concepts fairly difficult, which most ex-cadets seem to not struggle with too much.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Look up and wave
Advanced concepts? 
Yep, press this button and it does this, press this button and it does that. Don't push that button though. Why? Just don't push it
The hardest endorsements I ever completed were turboprop stuff. Jets and their endorsements are designed for the lowest common denominator who fly them.
Yep pretty advanced stuff.
The hardest flying is single pilot IFR in remote locations. This is what the cadets lack.
I'd consider the right decision making ability an advanced concept
This requires experience.
I fly with cadets. Some have great SOPs, some have great knowledge, some have great flying ability, but none have all 3. Generally though they are all keen, just like any other Pilot I have flown with.
Yep, press this button and it does this, press this button and it does that. Don't push that button though. Why? Just don't push it
The hardest endorsements I ever completed were turboprop stuff. Jets and their endorsements are designed for the lowest common denominator who fly them.
Yep pretty advanced stuff.
The hardest flying is single pilot IFR in remote locations. This is what the cadets lack.
I'd consider the right decision making ability an advanced concept
This requires experience.I fly with cadets. Some have great SOPs, some have great knowledge, some have great flying ability, but none have all 3. Generally though they are all keen, just like any other Pilot I have flown with.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 2
From: Asia
Regardless of whether an experienced GA guy is better than a cadet or vice versa, the people making the decisions couldn't care less. Flight crews are a figure in the expense column, the name of the game is to lower that figure.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 2
From: Not Syderknee
Some have 2-, 3-, 4000, sometimes 5000 hours and lacks basic knowledge in aviation.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
Virgin Recruitment for 2012
Virgin Australia Pilot Cadet Program - News - Flightdeck Consulting Airline Interview Specialists
Just found this on the web. Def looks like they are trying to follow Qantas cadet programs wonder how much cash newbies will have to cough up?? At least there not straight onto the E-Jet or 737. But still not a fan!!
Anyone got any inside info on possible plans this year for VA. Have heard many mixed reviews. i.e. most recruiting will be onto E-Jet as lots transferring onto 737.. Have heard opposite of that that there plenty of room for 737 slots in Syd/Mel. Also hear the number of QF resumes hitting the pile is quite large. This would surely make the odds a bit tougher.
Just found this on the web. Def looks like they are trying to follow Qantas cadet programs wonder how much cash newbies will have to cough up?? At least there not straight onto the E-Jet or 737. But still not a fan!!
Anyone got any inside info on possible plans this year for VA. Have heard many mixed reviews. i.e. most recruiting will be onto E-Jet as lots transferring onto 737.. Have heard opposite of that that there plenty of room for 737 slots in Syd/Mel. Also hear the number of QF resumes hitting the pile is quite large. This would surely make the odds a bit tougher.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
Skywest
With the cadets who complete the course being offered a position with Skywest, this would mean the cadet needs to live in WA. Does anyone know if Virgin will offer allowances for accomodation for people who don't reside there, or would they just have to tough it out for 2 years?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Truss,
Do some research. The Skywest ATR's operated for Virgin are all based on the East Coast (BN and CB) so your base would be one of them.
There is no way Virgin will pay an allowance or accomodation for you, that don't do it for the 20% of pilots of the current pilots who commute, so there is no chance cadets will get it.
Do some research. The Skywest ATR's operated for Virgin are all based on the East Coast (BN and CB) so your base would be one of them.
There is no way Virgin will pay an allowance or accomodation for you, that don't do it for the 20% of pilots of the current pilots who commute, so there is no chance cadets will get it.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
From: Sydney
...a LOT of research. Unfortunately you're sorely mistaken if you think an airline (at least in this country) is going to pay you extra or your relocation costs for not being in a base that you want. Allowances are paid for overnighting away from home base . If you were to be based in Perth, then that's your base = no allowances.
It doesn't matter anyway because the ATRs operated by Skywest for Virgin are all based on the east coast as GAFA said. At this stage...
You should try for the Cathay cadetship though, apparently the pay and conditions are phenomenal.
It doesn't matter anyway because the ATRs operated by Skywest for Virgin are all based on the east coast as GAFA said. At this stage...
You should try for the Cathay cadetship though, apparently the pay and conditions are phenomenal.
