JetStar NZ
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Bongo... mate. That's a bit of a revelation. Are you the only honest RLK pilot...???
27/09
Yep... you start out thinking it is a joke... and then you realise, to your horror, that it's real.
When I was doing the hiring for some of my old employers, I always conducted the interview and always sat in on the sim ride. It's the only way to be sure how a guy handles himself in the cockpit. None of the HR BS will tell you that.
27/09
This HR mumbo jumbo gives me the S**ts
When I was doing the hiring for some of my old employers, I always conducted the interview and always sat in on the sim ride. It's the only way to be sure how a guy handles himself in the cockpit. None of the HR BS will tell you that.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Leave the poor guy alone (PheonixNZ)
Remoak makes a lot of sense in some of the things he says. Most everyone else here are regurgitating self serving tripe. To you Pheonix, do what you think is right for you and your family. You will find that most of the guys bellyaching on here are already employed by Qantas / Jetstar and are only worried about their own terms and conditions. They couldn't give a rats about you or yours, in fact, they would be the first ones to bowl you over if you happened to find yourself in the way of what they wanted. So go ahead, go for it and don't worry about the rest of these clowns.
And before you all bounce on me, I have been flying for over 30 years and have never paid for a rating in my life but in todays world, thats just how it is. Europe survives on cadet schemes and they work very well for the employer and for the cadet.
Maggot
And before you all bounce on me, I have been flying for over 30 years and have never paid for a rating in my life but in todays world, thats just how it is. Europe survives on cadet schemes and they work very well for the employer and for the cadet.
Maggot
This whole Jetstar cadet scam reminds me a bit if this story. The last line says it all.
A highly successful executive woman was tragically hit by a bus and died. She arrived in heaven where she was met by God.
"Welcome to heaven," said God. "Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. Strangely enough, we've never once had an executive make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you."
"No problem God, just let me in." said the woman.
God replied, "What we're going to do is let you spend a day in hell and a day in heaven and then you can choose where you want to spend an eternity."
God put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to hell. The doors opened and she found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and standing in front of her were all her friends – fellow executives that she had worked with and they were all dressed in evening gowns and cheering for her. They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks and they talked about old times. They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where she enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. She met the devil who was actually a really nice guy (kinda cute) and she had a great time telling jokes and dancing. She was having such a good time that before she knew it, it was time to leave. Everybody shook her hand and waved good-bye as she got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at heaven and found God waiting for her.
"Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," God said. So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing. She had a great time and before she knew it her 24 hours were up and God came and got her.
"So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity," God said.
The woman paused for a second and then replied, "Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in hell."
So God escorted her to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to hell. When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. She saw her friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks. The devil came up to her and put his arm around her.
"I don't understand," stammered the woman, "yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and we danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable."
The devil looked at her and smiled. "Yesterday we were recruiting you; today you're staff."
"Welcome to heaven," said God. "Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. Strangely enough, we've never once had an executive make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you."
"No problem God, just let me in." said the woman.
God replied, "What we're going to do is let you spend a day in hell and a day in heaven and then you can choose where you want to spend an eternity."
God put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to hell. The doors opened and she found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and standing in front of her were all her friends – fellow executives that she had worked with and they were all dressed in evening gowns and cheering for her. They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks and they talked about old times. They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where she enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. She met the devil who was actually a really nice guy (kinda cute) and she had a great time telling jokes and dancing. She was having such a good time that before she knew it, it was time to leave. Everybody shook her hand and waved good-bye as she got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at heaven and found God waiting for her.
"Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," God said. So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing. She had a great time and before she knew it her 24 hours were up and God came and got her.
"So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity," God said.
The woman paused for a second and then replied, "Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in hell."
So God escorted her to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to hell. When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. She saw her friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks. The devil came up to her and put his arm around her.
"I don't understand," stammered the woman, "yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and we danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable."
The devil looked at her and smiled. "Yesterday we were recruiting you; today you're staff."
You will find that most of the guys bellyaching on here are already employed by Qantas / Jetstar and are only worried about their own terms and conditions.
That pains me greatly because I bloody well love it. But I am not willing to have my love of the job abused.
OneStar is a filthy disgrace.
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Phoenix,
I can understand where you are coming from. As a turboprop driver myself on pretty average money, looking at jet opportunities in OZ now I can tell you it stinks. There is nothing, or whatever is on offer pays next to nothing. In fact I am this close to packing up and heading to the sandpit, because that seems to be the last decent wage on offer. If i have to waste 10-20 years of my life then so be it. At this rate I will still be working when I am 65 and poor as ever. No thanks. Don't get me wrong, flying is fun, but I sure as hell wouldn't do it again given the chance. This industry has turned into a pile of horse manure thanks to Jetstar and other LCC's.
You have to ask yourself, why would you sell your soul to jetstar just for the chance to fly a shiny jet? I had an application in there, and withdrew it as soon as I got the email from rishworth. $58,000 AUD to fly an a320?? I have friends with NO responsibility who make more than that. I make more than that now on a prop for crying out loud. Don't forget that every captain you fly with is going to hate you, because you will be the guy who screwed over the entire pilot community to jump the queue. People don't respond well to that.
Do the right thing, go bush for a few years and build some REAL experience. Do you really want to be sitting in the right seat of a 150 seat a320 with 200 hours? Jesus I wouldn't. There are some situations you just won't be able to handle, and the captain will have to bear the load on his or her own. Jump into a jet or turbo prop with 1 or 2000 hours and you will feel MUCH better about yourself, trust me. Oh and GA isn't really the road to poverty as it once was, I was on the award wage of ~$32,000 from the second I started.
Good luck
I can understand where you are coming from. As a turboprop driver myself on pretty average money, looking at jet opportunities in OZ now I can tell you it stinks. There is nothing, or whatever is on offer pays next to nothing. In fact I am this close to packing up and heading to the sandpit, because that seems to be the last decent wage on offer. If i have to waste 10-20 years of my life then so be it. At this rate I will still be working when I am 65 and poor as ever. No thanks. Don't get me wrong, flying is fun, but I sure as hell wouldn't do it again given the chance. This industry has turned into a pile of horse manure thanks to Jetstar and other LCC's.
You have to ask yourself, why would you sell your soul to jetstar just for the chance to fly a shiny jet? I had an application in there, and withdrew it as soon as I got the email from rishworth. $58,000 AUD to fly an a320?? I have friends with NO responsibility who make more than that. I make more than that now on a prop for crying out loud. Don't forget that every captain you fly with is going to hate you, because you will be the guy who screwed over the entire pilot community to jump the queue. People don't respond well to that.
Do the right thing, go bush for a few years and build some REAL experience. Do you really want to be sitting in the right seat of a 150 seat a320 with 200 hours? Jesus I wouldn't. There are some situations you just won't be able to handle, and the captain will have to bear the load on his or her own. Jump into a jet or turbo prop with 1 or 2000 hours and you will feel MUCH better about yourself, trust me. Oh and GA isn't really the road to poverty as it once was, I was on the award wage of ~$32,000 from the second I started.
Good luck
Last edited by aviationboy; 30th Jul 2011 at 04:34.
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Oh and GA isn't really the road to poverty as it once was, I was on the award wage of ~$32,000 from the second I started.
(Massey058 you're up in Indonesia aren't you?)Apart from Crescos and Fletchers, there's only one or two non-airline-operated kerosene burners on the whole ZK register. And again, outside of ag, you could count the number of people who actually make a sustainable long term living out of flying GA aircraft on one hand. The Massey and CTC "A" and "B" cats are doing OK I believe, but they all did years of slave labour before they even got those qualifications so that kind of defeats the argument.
The one or two small GA operators who do look after their people, probably only hire once in a generation when the previous guy retires, and the job generally goes to someone who's been brown nosing the boss for years in advance, not a guy fresh off the street from CTC.
Join Date: Jul 2011
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It wouldn't bother me moving to Australia to do GA work for a year or two. The main drawback I can at the moment for going straight to Jetstar is not getting the PIC hours I would need to qualify for my ATPL in a year or two time. I'm doing the exams now which is a waste if I can't get it because of a lack of PIC hours.
The main issue I would face is living off $32000 a year with two children. Here in NZ it wouldn't be so much of an issue as we qualify for family support from the govt. I would have my doubt that I'd qualify for anything similar in Australia which would make things far too difficult on my family. While it wouldn't bother me living off baked beans on toast for a year its not something I'm going to do to my wife and kids.
Its just a big balancing game at the moment.
The main issue I would face is living off $32000 a year with two children. Here in NZ it wouldn't be so much of an issue as we qualify for family support from the govt. I would have my doubt that I'd qualify for anything similar in Australia which would make things far too difficult on my family. While it wouldn't bother me living off baked beans on toast for a year its not something I'm going to do to my wife and kids.
Its just a big balancing game at the moment.
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Well I can understand you not wanting to fly with me right now cos fairly I dont have the licence and ratings etc. That goes without saying
Therefore your comment must relate to my view on being a cadet for Jetstar.
And I have plenty of clues, just maybe I came to a different murder suspect than yourself.
Therefore your comment must relate to my view on being a cadet for Jetstar.
And I have plenty of clues, just maybe I came to a different murder suspect than yourself.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syd
Age: 42
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Fair Work Australia
Minimum salary per annum
AUS$
Captain
First Officers
Second Pilots
Single engine UTBNI 1360 kg
35,699
30,643
Single engine 1360 kg – 3359 kg
37,216
30,643
Single engine 3360 kg & above
43,223
33,739
Multi engine UTBNI 3360 kg
41,567
32,427
Multi engine 3360 kg UTBNI 5660 kg
43,223
33,739
Multi engine 5660 kg UTBNI 8500 kg
45,587
35,187
Multi engine 8500 kg UTBNI 12000 kg
49,040
37,370
Multi engine 12000 kg UTBNI 15000 kg
52,709
39,793
Multi engine 15000 kg UTBNI 19000 kg
57,438
42,686
Multi engine 19000 kg & above – unless otherwise listed
61,454
44,978
Dash 8 100-15650 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 200-16466 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 300-19505 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 400-28998 kg MTOW
61,361
44,978
This is the minimum stated award in Aus. Even at some of these rates you will end up with most of your tax dollars back anyhow.
Was cracking around up North many years ago and definetley didn't make anywhere near as low as $32,00 per year. Ended up at end of financial year getting all tax back as lots of expenses to claim etc
Anyway like ive said you seem set in your ways so good luck with it all. You seem to think the sun shines out of Jetstars program when all they really have is a commercial interest in you signing up with them and exploiting that.
SJS is still going strong.
Minimum salary per annum
AUS$
Captain
First Officers
Second Pilots
Single engine UTBNI 1360 kg
35,699
30,643
Single engine 1360 kg – 3359 kg
37,216
30,643
Single engine 3360 kg & above
43,223
33,739
Multi engine UTBNI 3360 kg
41,567
32,427
Multi engine 3360 kg UTBNI 5660 kg
43,223
33,739
Multi engine 5660 kg UTBNI 8500 kg
45,587
35,187
Multi engine 8500 kg UTBNI 12000 kg
49,040
37,370
Multi engine 12000 kg UTBNI 15000 kg
52,709
39,793
Multi engine 15000 kg UTBNI 19000 kg
57,438
42,686
Multi engine 19000 kg & above – unless otherwise listed
61,454
44,978
Dash 8 100-15650 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 200-16466 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 300-19505 kg MTOW
57,438
42,686
Dash 8 400-28998 kg MTOW
61,361
44,978
This is the minimum stated award in Aus. Even at some of these rates you will end up with most of your tax dollars back anyhow.
Was cracking around up North many years ago and definetley didn't make anywhere near as low as $32,00 per year. Ended up at end of financial year getting all tax back as lots of expenses to claim etc
Anyway like ive said you seem set in your ways so good luck with it all. You seem to think the sun shines out of Jetstars program when all they really have is a commercial interest in you signing up with them and exploiting that.
SJS is still going strong.
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Swimbetweentheflags
I'm more than happy to work GA if the jobs are available. I certainly think there are benefits to going GA first, mostly in getting PIC hours up.
I dont neccessarily disagree with you on that but that doesn't mean that the cadets get nothing out of it. Cadets simply have to balance what they get out of it and is it worth the lower salary/being exploited. Hundreds of thousands of apprentices around the world seem to think it is, why should aviation be any different?
Lets try and keep it above the belt aye. None of this is to do with SJS. Its all to do with what option works out best for me personally in the long term.
I'm more than happy to work GA if the jobs are available. I certainly think there are benefits to going GA first, mostly in getting PIC hours up.
Anyway like ive said you seem set in your ways so good luck with it all. You seem to think the sun shines out of Jetstars program when all they really have is a commercial interest in you signing up with them and exploiting that.
SJS is still going strong.
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Lets try and keep it above the belt aye. None of this is to do with SJS. Its all to do with what option works out best for me personally in the long term.
No worries but its just my observation so take it how you want.
Still whichever way I look there is plenty of Kiwis doing well for themselves over here and accomplishing personal goals.
Will try to keep them above belt now
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@ Luke
Yep sorry I was talking about OZ GA there, different kettle of fish. Phoenix will be much better off persuing a career in OZ as opposed to NZ. A few years in GA followed by progression onto turbo props will probably result in a more rewarding career than Jetstar, unless he is looking for a quick jump overseas by grabbing a TR and some jet time.
@ Phoenix,
The problem with Jetstar is, while the money may be slightly better than GA the progression will be limited within the company. Other OZ/NZ airlines will be unlikely to hire you so all roads lead overseas and I am not sure how that appeals to you having a wife and 2 kids. Even if you stick around and end up on 130k as a captain, is it worth it? I would never command an a320 for that money, it is simply all risk no reward IMO. I understand you are still in your training phase, so you haven't experienced the airline lifestyle just yet. 130k might sound good to an outside obersever, who doesn't see the level of responsibility present, or the scrutiny you face, the number of sim checks you have to pass each year, line checks, big days at jetstar, plus all the other crap that comes with aviation. No sir, 130k won't cut it. My brother in law makes 120k working at a desk all day. No bad weather, no sims to pass, no in flight emergenices to worry about.
In the end you have to decide, but currently Jet*'s compensation is woefully inadequate and I can't see it getting any better in the near future. Just remember as many have said here, if there is a steady stream of newbie pilots willing to work for 65k then the best days of this industry are well and truly behind us.
Yep sorry I was talking about OZ GA there, different kettle of fish. Phoenix will be much better off persuing a career in OZ as opposed to NZ. A few years in GA followed by progression onto turbo props will probably result in a more rewarding career than Jetstar, unless he is looking for a quick jump overseas by grabbing a TR and some jet time.
@ Phoenix,
The problem with Jetstar is, while the money may be slightly better than GA the progression will be limited within the company. Other OZ/NZ airlines will be unlikely to hire you so all roads lead overseas and I am not sure how that appeals to you having a wife and 2 kids. Even if you stick around and end up on 130k as a captain, is it worth it? I would never command an a320 for that money, it is simply all risk no reward IMO. I understand you are still in your training phase, so you haven't experienced the airline lifestyle just yet. 130k might sound good to an outside obersever, who doesn't see the level of responsibility present, or the scrutiny you face, the number of sim checks you have to pass each year, line checks, big days at jetstar, plus all the other crap that comes with aviation. No sir, 130k won't cut it. My brother in law makes 120k working at a desk all day. No bad weather, no sims to pass, no in flight emergenices to worry about.
In the end you have to decide, but currently Jet*'s compensation is woefully inadequate and I can't see it getting any better in the near future. Just remember as many have said here, if there is a steady stream of newbie pilots willing to work for 65k then the best days of this industry are well and truly behind us.
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So it comes back to the same old sh!t ...
... bend over and take it like a choir boy if you wanna stay in New Zealand, or head to Aussie or further overseas to seek your fortune. Nothing's changed in the last 60 years then
Did we really need 9 pages of bickering on the internet to come to that conclusion
... bend over and take it like a choir boy if you wanna stay in New Zealand, or head to Aussie or further overseas to seek your fortune. Nothing's changed in the last 60 years then
Did we really need 9 pages of bickering on the internet to come to that conclusion
In Australia, maybe, that's true. But you notice that everyone telling the guy to go do GA is from Australia, not NZ (Massey058 you're up in Indonesia aren't you?)
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I'm not fooling myself that in all likelyhood if I go with JQ to get any further progression I'll probably end up in the sandpit with EK. However thats not really a prospect that causes me any great concern. I've spoken with others who work for EK and live in Dubai and who rate the lifestyle, even for those with families, very highly.
I've still got a year until I'm in any sort of position to make any meaningful decisions. If I can find a decent GA job where I can start building my PIC hours and then move into multi-crew work on a turbo-prop then I'll be just as happy as if I went straight for JQ.
I've still got a year until I'm in any sort of position to make any meaningful decisions. If I can find a decent GA job where I can start building my PIC hours and then move into multi-crew work on a turbo-prop then I'll be just as happy as if I went straight for JQ.
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Phoenix.
Quote ''The main issue I would face is living off $32000 a year with two children. Here in NZ it wouldn't be so much of an issue as we qualify for family support from the govt. ''
Are we willing to stoop so low that our Airline pilots qualify for Govt handouts to make ends meet. Shame on Jetstar and those that accept..
Quote ''The main issue I would face is living off $32000 a year with two children. Here in NZ it wouldn't be so much of an issue as we qualify for family support from the govt. ''
Are we willing to stoop so low that our Airline pilots qualify for Govt handouts to make ends meet. Shame on Jetstar and those that accept..