Qantas Pilots, You Are Losing The Battle.
The new Staff Travel claim in the EBA is simply an attempt to restore the balance in the game that is Staff Travel Roulette.
This wouldn't have had to happen if middle management didn't invent the "41Y" onload category which (regardless of year of joining) immediately puts them above any staff member on their Annual Leave trip.
AIPA needs to make this perfectly clear - that a brand new 22yo IT contractor would get onloaded before a Captain with 40 years service who is on annual leave. And that, is just plain wrong.
This wouldn't have had to happen if middle management didn't invent the "41Y" onload category which (regardless of year of joining) immediately puts them above any staff member on their Annual Leave trip.
AIPA needs to make this perfectly clear - that a brand new 22yo IT contractor would get onloaded before a Captain with 40 years service who is on annual leave. And that, is just plain wrong.
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ITS IS THE CABIN CREW REST SEAT(CURTAINED OFF). NO CAPTAIN WILL EVER GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO OVERRIDE THE CABIN CREW REST FACILITY AND PUT SOME FRIEND OR FRIEND OF SOMEONE IN THERE!!!!!
YOU WANT TO UPSET CABIN CREW GO AHEAD WITH THAT STUPID CLAIM.
REMEMBER DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!
YOU WANT TO UPSET CABIN CREW GO AHEAD WITH THAT STUPID CLAIM.
REMEMBER DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!
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Two international premium economy seats a year?
Crew Rest seats for family members?
Wouldn't these be demands that Qantas could use at the negotiating table and taking tit for tat, rather than giving them to journos to further disenchant and alienate the pilot groups? 'We can't give you 5% but what about this instead?'
Just out of curiosity what are the current perks and rosters like for a long-haul pilot?
A PM will remain so.
Cheers
Cameron
Crew Rest seats for family members?
Wouldn't these be demands that Qantas could use at the negotiating table and taking tit for tat, rather than giving them to journos to further disenchant and alienate the pilot groups? 'We can't give you 5% but what about this instead?'
Just out of curiosity what are the current perks and rosters like for a long-haul pilot?
A PM will remain so.
Cheers
Cameron
Last edited by stewser89; 18th May 2011 at 23:01.
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Why is this information being leaked to the press?
Two reasons.
Mud sticks & those who throw it first will have the advantage to the end.
And it is in the Australian psyche to to be anti the tall poppy.
So lets throw some mud around regarding supposed over the top claims, bending them, twisting them & spinning them to make the opposition look as bad to the general public as possible & see where it goes. They are already on the back foot with public opinion. It will be harder to stage industrial action with the public off side & the pressure on the politicians will be great to step in & rescue the traveling public & the airlines from being held to ransom. It worked a few years ago, so why not now the management ask themselves.
Well, why not throw some mud back insead of just taking it all the time? You can't take the high moral ground while you are being crucified & the mob mentality are just lapping up the show. Everyone in management is a tall poppy just waiting to be cut down. How about spinning some of their excesses & presenting that to the public? You just might get some of the attention focused back where it belongs. Maybe not for the right reasons initially, but once the spotlight is there, you can then put the boot in regarding the things that really matter.
Two reasons.
Mud sticks & those who throw it first will have the advantage to the end.
And it is in the Australian psyche to to be anti the tall poppy.
So lets throw some mud around regarding supposed over the top claims, bending them, twisting them & spinning them to make the opposition look as bad to the general public as possible & see where it goes. They are already on the back foot with public opinion. It will be harder to stage industrial action with the public off side & the pressure on the politicians will be great to step in & rescue the traveling public & the airlines from being held to ransom. It worked a few years ago, so why not now the management ask themselves.
Well, why not throw some mud back insead of just taking it all the time? You can't take the high moral ground while you are being crucified & the mob mentality are just lapping up the show. Everyone in management is a tall poppy just waiting to be cut down. How about spinning some of their excesses & presenting that to the public? You just might get some of the attention focused back where it belongs. Maybe not for the right reasons initially, but once the spotlight is there, you can then put the boot in regarding the things that really matter.
Thread Starter
You silly buggers haven't even educated the public about what "sub load" travel really is. They think you can waltz up to the counter and get on board like the general public.
My own experience of sub load on annual leave in England was the dreaded morning telephone call to Qantas to see if there were Two seats free for the last week of my annual leave.
My own experience of sub load on annual leave in England was the dreaded morning telephone call to Qantas to see if there were Two seats free for the last week of my annual leave.
We need to remember this battle has only just started. By Qantas spewing out this rubbish so early it is actually giving AIPA an advantage, because these "bites" from the company become old news very quickly, and they are actually very easy to counter in the long term.
If PIA becomes reality from both the engineers and pilots (and i get the feeling the timing will be very close
) the media spotlight will be all over the two unions. That will be the time to start the publicity war. The unions have so much ammo against qantas management that i think Qantas has shown its hand too early. Look at how the mainstream media is starting to question how the airline is being run.....we wouldn't have seen that 18 months ago.
I think its Qantas that will have more trouble than the employees unions, and they know it.
If PIA becomes reality from both the engineers and pilots (and i get the feeling the timing will be very close
) the media spotlight will be all over the two unions. That will be the time to start the publicity war. The unions have so much ammo against qantas management that i think Qantas has shown its hand too early. Look at how the mainstream media is starting to question how the airline is being run.....we wouldn't have seen that 18 months ago.I think its Qantas that will have more trouble than the employees unions, and they know it.
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Angle
you are a bit of course.
No Captain overrules industrial agreements unless he/ she wants an invitation from the CP) . yes he/she is in charge of the aircraft (no one ever questions that) but has to take into consideration industrial agreements written into SOP's. This article resulted into a flury of phone calls and as a result the FAAA published an email to its members re this issue. I fully understand the issue re contractors getting higher priorities( which pi...ses everyone off severly), I have to deal with this issue all the time as long serving staff members throughout the company get sh...ted by contractors. Don't start me off with J* contractor with pc categories
As for flippin burgers, not a bad idea. join the mining boom get 200k plus to flip burgers and don't have to put up with self loading freight, princesses etc.
No Captain overrules industrial agreements unless he/ she wants an invitation from the CP) . yes he/she is in charge of the aircraft (no one ever questions that) but has to take into consideration industrial agreements written into SOP's. This article resulted into a flury of phone calls and as a result the FAAA published an email to its members re this issue. I fully understand the issue re contractors getting higher priorities( which pi...ses everyone off severly), I have to deal with this issue all the time as long serving staff members throughout the company get sh...ted by contractors. Don't start me off with J* contractor with pc categoriesAs for flippin burgers, not a bad idea. join the mining boom get 200k plus to flip burgers and don't have to put up with self loading freight, princesses etc.
Lets not focus on an us v's them thing between CC and Tech crew.
The company is shafting both groups so lets just forget about who is in charge and who is a princess etc for a few months.
The company is shafting both groups so lets just forget about who is in charge and who is a princess etc for a few months.
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Come clean bosses
As a pilot involved in the current fight, while I don't like details of our EBA coming out to the public as part of the war,I don't really think that public opinion will win or lose the war.
HOWEVER.....if that is the way it's run, why don't we publish the details of AJ's package or Buchanan or any of the other fools running this show?
I'm pretty sure they would get confirmed first class seats, millions of dollars in shares etc etc
HOWEVER.....if that is the way it's run, why don't we publish the details of AJ's package or Buchanan or any of the other fools running this show?
I'm pretty sure they would get confirmed first class seats, millions of dollars in shares etc etc
Thread Starter
Capt. South, public opinion is the ONLY thing that will win you this war.
Qantas cannot hold out against a strike by pilots or engineers if there is some sympathy for you from the general public.
If on the other hand, Qantas can paint you as a bunch of greedy Prima Donnas holding traveling mums and dads and babies to ransom, then your strike will be broken in exactly the same way as 1989.
Remember the waterfront strike? Patrick Ltd made one mistake - they allowed masked security guards with attack dogs to be photographed and it made it to the front cover of every newspaper in the country. That was all it took to destroy any public sympathy for the employer.
You need to get professional help with your PR.
I don't know if the engineers are doing so (SP's letter to Thomas was masterly) but you need to get the message out about what hoops you have to jump through to end up in an A380 and how that can quickly end through medical problems, failed checks, etc. etc.
To put it another way; all it needs is the Murdoch press to get a photo of a Qantas Captain climbing into his Ferrari or Porsche and pasting that on front pages with a comment about earning $500, 000 per year and your EBA is toast.
Perceptions are reality.
Qantas cannot hold out against a strike by pilots or engineers if there is some sympathy for you from the general public.
If on the other hand, Qantas can paint you as a bunch of greedy Prima Donnas holding traveling mums and dads and babies to ransom, then your strike will be broken in exactly the same way as 1989.
Remember the waterfront strike? Patrick Ltd made one mistake - they allowed masked security guards with attack dogs to be photographed and it made it to the front cover of every newspaper in the country. That was all it took to destroy any public sympathy for the employer.
You need to get professional help with your PR.
I don't know if the engineers are doing so (SP's letter to Thomas was masterly) but you need to get the message out about what hoops you have to jump through to end up in an A380 and how that can quickly end through medical problems, failed checks, etc. etc.
To put it another way; all it needs is the Murdoch press to get a photo of a Qantas Captain climbing into his Ferrari or Porsche and pasting that on front pages with a comment about earning $500, 000 per year and your EBA is toast.
Perceptions are reality.
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Gentlemen Compromise
You require both......Solidarity and public sympathy.
With both you will achieve a positive outcome.
To friends not in the industry I am spending a lot time explaining whats happening.They are not getting the facts from the media.Many feel that what Qantas is proposing is un Australain but on the other hand they are not sure why pilots deserve their support.The AIPA needs to get out there and clear this up
With both you will achieve a positive outcome.
To friends not in the industry I am spending a lot time explaining whats happening.They are not getting the facts from the media.Many feel that what Qantas is proposing is un Australain but on the other hand they are not sure why pilots deserve their support.The AIPA needs to get out there and clear this up
So far the QF spin has concentrated purely on the pilots list of claims, and let me tell you there aren't that many.
I'd like to see AIPA, in due course, present the companies list of claims for all to see, and let me tell you there are many!
More importantly, have it presented in a fashion that joe public can understand.
Any one of the pilots 'audacious' claims can be easily countered with some of the immoral demands the company is placing on the pilot negotiating table.
I have to agree that perception is everything. 99% of the population take on face value what they hear via various media outlets. Why wouldn't they? We just have to make sure that when we are given an opportunity, be it TV, radio or print media, we dispatch the obvious untruths to the gutter where they belong a little better than we have been doing recently.
I'd like to see AIPA, in due course, present the companies list of claims for all to see, and let me tell you there are many!
More importantly, have it presented in a fashion that joe public can understand.
Any one of the pilots 'audacious' claims can be easily countered with some of the immoral demands the company is placing on the pilot negotiating table.
I have to agree that perception is everything. 99% of the population take on face value what they hear via various media outlets. Why wouldn't they? We just have to make sure that when we are given an opportunity, be it TV, radio or print media, we dispatch the obvious untruths to the gutter where they belong a little better than we have been doing recently.
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... and family and friends willing to 'comment' after such scurrilous drivel. Mobilise your mums / dads / partners / spouses / kids etc. but make the message CLEAR and not technical.
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Ok, this isn't the engineering EBA section, and I get that, but has anyone asked, why did the engineers back down SO quickly and promise not to do anything for a month?!?! What was said to them?
(the month bit is a rumour.. Is it true?)
(the month bit is a rumour.. Is it true?)
Ok, this isn't the engineering EBA section, and I get that, but has anyone asked, why did the engineers back down SO quickly and promise not to do anything for a month?!?! What was said to them?
(the month bit is a rumour.. Is it true?)
(the month bit is a rumour.. Is it true?)
2. The long Haul Pilots will be also taking PIA
3. Other facets of the business will also be seeking PIA
4. Jetstar will be in court with the AFAP.
5. There will be a ruling on Jetconnect
6. The shareholders will be calling an emergency meeting asking WTF is going on!
The results?
The A team will be kicked so hard up the arse, they'll need to hitch a ride on the space shuttle to get back down.
P.S I don't think NASA will oblige
