Qantas Pilots, You Are Losing The Battle.
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You have to protect the McNuggets at all times !!!
These guys are punching way below the belt now. Spin spin spin lies lies deceit deceit !!!
If the Qantas group is not performing then I vote the first thing that should be cut is the execs over inflated pay packets and bonuses !!
Lead from the top AJ
These guys are punching way below the belt now. Spin spin spin lies lies deceit deceit !!!
If the Qantas group is not performing then I vote the first thing that should be cut is the execs over inflated pay packets and bonuses !!
Lead from the top AJ
Last edited by Swimbetweentheflags; 17th May 2011 at 23:45. Reason: Update hit submit to early
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Exactly I almost died when I heard these Qantas Club demands from both sides. Are you losing focus?! ALAEA Fed Sec, what the hell were you thinking sir? (I single you out because I know you will read this, but equally can be said for AIPA). It seems that you are clouding the job security issue.
Qantas can attack as much as they like. Our powder is saved and ready for when the time comes. Every time they lie publically, we will expose more poor maintenance practices from overseas to drag the debate back to the real issues. It's up to them really about how much they want out there, remember of course, the next engine failure is just around the corner.
I think back to 89, as an apprentice I was partially removed from the pilots dispute. All I remember is that they wanted limos to work. Right or wrong, that is what I remember. It's correct to say that public perception is important and elaborate claims do not look good. I'm sure AIPA are aware of what is going on but I will discuss this with them when we next meet.
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very confused story that was poorly written and badly verified - a good demo why newspapers should not outsource sub editors - 'jetstarise newspapers? and why Unions need to play the media game better than the likes of Ms Worthless and the little bloke.
Interresting in that the Tele mash is confusingly speaking of access to the CC's crew rest seats - which actually raises the question about where is the CC Union in all of this? - I know I did not ask for a curtained seat for Mrs Airtags -
Just a thought though - Pilots Engineers, the Ramp, the Ground Staff - they all seem to be rightly putting the heat on Q's offshoring - yet CC Union has not even popped a comment up on pprune.
AT
AT
Interresting in that the Tele mash is confusingly speaking of access to the CC's crew rest seats - which actually raises the question about where is the CC Union in all of this? - I know I did not ask for a curtained seat for Mrs Airtags -
Just a thought though - Pilots Engineers, the Ramp, the Ground Staff - they all seem to be rightly putting the heat on Q's offshoring - yet CC Union has not even popped a comment up on pprune.
AT
AT
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On the contrary. I'm not really concerned by this tabloid trash.
Because i can only ask . . . . .
IS THAT ALL YA GOT????
They spun the same crap yesterday with the engineers and Q club.
IS THAT ALL YOU CRETINS HAVE???
Evil engineers and pilots negotiating for lounge access and jump seats.
IS THAT REALLY ALL YOU INCOMPETENT INDIVIDUALS HAVE?
Great spin idiots. Really well timed because the last time i looked, NOTHING IS HAPPENING!!! I don't see terminals full of pissed off passengers. I don't see engineers refusing to meet planes. Todays tabloid crap is forgotten tomorrow. Daily telegraph pole, a most credible measure of public sentiment. Fu*%!ng spare me.
These idiots have shot their bolt WAY too early. Do you think the editors of these most reputable papers will want to run the same crap again when there really is some action????? THINK TIMING!!!! You can rest assured ALEA and AIPA are. Something about a senate inquiry due to report next month? Hmmm can't see Qantas club or jump seats making the headlines then idiots.
SHOW US WHAT YA GOT!!!!!
Oh I forgot. They already did when the engineers flushed em out last week.
PADDY AND REG YOU ARE FINISHED!
The staff have had it and are coming from below (sic) and the BIG INSTITUTIONAL SHAREHOLDERS are coming from above.
Thats right, SHOW US HOW YOU HAVE IMPROVED THE VALUE AND RETURNS FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS YOU INCOMPETENTS! $2.11 today, wonder where it will be this time next month?
KEEP THE FAITH MY FRIENDS
These shallow individuals have nothing and we have not yet begun to fight. Our leaders are smarter than the liars, cheats and rip off merchants that presume to run OUR airline.
We dealt with Dixon and we will deal with this ridiculous crew also.
Because i can only ask . . . . .
IS THAT ALL YA GOT????
They spun the same crap yesterday with the engineers and Q club.
IS THAT ALL YOU CRETINS HAVE???
Evil engineers and pilots negotiating for lounge access and jump seats.
IS THAT REALLY ALL YOU INCOMPETENT INDIVIDUALS HAVE?
Great spin idiots. Really well timed because the last time i looked, NOTHING IS HAPPENING!!! I don't see terminals full of pissed off passengers. I don't see engineers refusing to meet planes. Todays tabloid crap is forgotten tomorrow. Daily telegraph pole, a most credible measure of public sentiment. Fu*%!ng spare me.
These idiots have shot their bolt WAY too early. Do you think the editors of these most reputable papers will want to run the same crap again when there really is some action????? THINK TIMING!!!! You can rest assured ALEA and AIPA are. Something about a senate inquiry due to report next month? Hmmm can't see Qantas club or jump seats making the headlines then idiots.
SHOW US WHAT YA GOT!!!!!
Oh I forgot. They already did when the engineers flushed em out last week.
PADDY AND REG YOU ARE FINISHED!
The staff have had it and are coming from below (sic) and the BIG INSTITUTIONAL SHAREHOLDERS are coming from above.
Thats right, SHOW US HOW YOU HAVE IMPROVED THE VALUE AND RETURNS FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS YOU INCOMPETENTS! $2.11 today, wonder where it will be this time next month?
KEEP THE FAITH MY FRIENDS
These shallow individuals have nothing and we have not yet begun to fight. Our leaders are smarter than the liars, cheats and rip off merchants that presume to run OUR airline.
We dealt with Dixon and we will deal with this ridiculous crew also.
Last edited by Iron Bar; 18th May 2011 at 01:27. Reason: Edit for ****** and arsehole
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from Aipa i can see that we as a group are on a uphill battle...These guys are still stuck back in the late 80'S somewhere and still harbour a lot of the sentiment and animosity from back then,
Sunfish is right, get a Spin doctor on the case.
These guys are punching way below the belt now. Spin spin spin lies lies deceit deceit !!!
As a punter, I think I would be interested in seeing what the Management Pay & Bonus structure is ... and what KPIs trigger those bonuses.
I would be interested in seeing whether Qantas' stated priority of "Safety" is supported by those KPIs
If Management were not willing to make their details available, as they so happily do with their Employees' details, I would be asking ... what do they have to hide?
There you are ... there's something to start with ...
I would be interested in seeing whether Qantas' stated priority of "Safety" is supported by those KPIs
If Management were not willing to make their details available, as they so happily do with their Employees' details, I would be asking ... what do they have to hide?
There you are ... there's something to start with ...
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Pilots, listen very carfully!!!!
As claimed by the news
An extract from the enterprise bargaining agreement claim the pilots are putting to Qantas states: "The pilot in command shall, in consultation with the CSM [customer service manager], have the ability to allocate one curtained economy class seat at his/her discretion."
The "curtained" seat refers to a rest seat that would otherwise be available to cabin crew on a long-haul flight.
It was previously voted on among the crew as to who would get the seat, but pilots are demanding that they now get to pick and choose above everyone else on board.
ITS IS THE CABIN CREW REST SEAT(CURTAINED OFF). NO CAPTAIN WILL EVER GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO OVERRIDE THE CABIN CREW REST FACILITY AND PUT SOME FRIEND OR FRIEND OF SOMEONE IN THERE!!!!!
YOU WANT TO UPSET CABIN CREW GO AHEAD WITH THAT STUPID CLAIM.
REMEMBER DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!
An extract from the enterprise bargaining agreement claim the pilots are putting to Qantas states: "The pilot in command shall, in consultation with the CSM [customer service manager], have the ability to allocate one curtained economy class seat at his/her discretion."
The "curtained" seat refers to a rest seat that would otherwise be available to cabin crew on a long-haul flight.
It was previously voted on among the crew as to who would get the seat, but pilots are demanding that they now get to pick and choose above everyone else on board.
ITS IS THE CABIN CREW REST SEAT(CURTAINED OFF). NO CAPTAIN WILL EVER GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO OVERRIDE THE CABIN CREW REST FACILITY AND PUT SOME FRIEND OR FRIEND OF SOMEONE IN THERE!!!!!
YOU WANT TO UPSET CABIN CREW GO AHEAD WITH THAT STUPID CLAIM.
REMEMBER DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!
Look Out Sydney Ferries!
Did someone mention Dixon?
GAAM also lease aircraft to Jetstar. Yet another beneficiary of the Jetstar growth.
Meanwhile, Singleton may also have his sights set on Sydney Ferries. The New South Wales government has called for expressions of interest to run a franchised Sydney Ferries, essentially contracting out the operations of the iconic service and The Australian Financial Review reports that the $2 billion Global Aviation Asset Management (GAAM) – the brainchild of Singleton and former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon – is preparing its offer for the state government.
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They did the same for the ALAEA yesterday.
Smash them back: Tell of the corrupt gifting of ipads, bottles of wine and lounge memberships.
Publish every single email from the Jetstar pilots in the SMH.
Smash them back: Tell of the corrupt gifting of ipads, bottles of wine and lounge memberships.
Publish every single email from the Jetstar pilots in the SMH.
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Yeah,two quotes from years past worth remembering at this time i believe.
"Those that forget the lessons of history are destined to repeat them"and "The only thing new in the world,is the history you don't know yet."
Essentially,these battles can not be won with emotional arguments.
As has been said by others,you must engage media savvy professionals to have
a fighting chance IMHO.
Good luck Blokes.
"Those that forget the lessons of history are destined to repeat them"and "The only thing new in the world,is the history you don't know yet."
Essentially,these battles can not be won with emotional arguments.
As has been said by others,you must engage media savvy professionals to have
a fighting chance IMHO.
Good luck Blokes.
Thread Starter
McPilots, McEngineers, McCabin Crew; that is the objective.
My guess is that the good old New South Wales Right wing Labor fix is in.
That means there will be no support whatsoever from the Government or the ACTU, exactly like when Hawkie was P.M.
Gillard wouldn't dare.
My guess is that the good old New South Wales Right wing Labor fix is in.
That means there will be no support whatsoever from the Government or the ACTU, exactly like when Hawkie was P.M.
Gillard wouldn't dare.
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The Courier Mail also reported that 'a source close to the airline' had told them all about the pilots' fancy claims. A close source that works for the Qantas PR machine, maybe? 
(Edit: the same article with the same byline has appeared in two of the Murdoch papers. The Daily Telegraph has a similar article by a different author with a claim that 'documents obtained by TDT reveal they are also pursuing other perks". Obtained out of an envelope with a Qantas PR department logo on it, perchance?).
The journos these days are too lazy to report anything except what the PR poppets tell them and the media make a lot of money from Qantas' advertising contracts. There's no point in getting mad about it, it's a fact of modern 'journalism'
. Either way and for whatever reason, the press are starting to make pilots look precious and that won't help your cause if it's not countered. PR is deceptively difficult and as Sunfish said, you need an expert.
Doing your own PR is like doing your own plumbing. In easy cases you'll probably get away with it but make one mistake and you'll be up to your knees in raw, unprocessed sewerage. Hire someone!
Pilot union's list of luxury travel perks angers battling Qantas | Courier Mail
Qantas pilots demand cheap family flights | thetelegraph.com.au
Good luck.
(Edit: the same article with the same byline has appeared in two of the Murdoch papers. The Daily Telegraph has a similar article by a different author with a claim that 'documents obtained by TDT reveal they are also pursuing other perks". Obtained out of an envelope with a Qantas PR department logo on it, perchance?). The journos these days are too lazy to report anything except what the PR poppets tell them and the media make a lot of money from Qantas' advertising contracts. There's no point in getting mad about it, it's a fact of modern 'journalism'
. Either way and for whatever reason, the press are starting to make pilots look precious and that won't help your cause if it's not countered. PR is deceptively difficult and as Sunfish said, you need an expert. Doing your own PR is like doing your own plumbing. In easy cases you'll probably get away with it but make one mistake and you'll be up to your knees in raw, unprocessed sewerage. Hire someone!
Pilot union's list of luxury travel perks angers battling Qantas | Courier Mail
Qantas pilots demand cheap family flights | thetelegraph.com.au
Good luck.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 18th May 2011 at 03:04.
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The media campaign steps up. Easy to influence journalists with ipads and expensive wine i suspect.
AIPA should fire back and list all the perks management get as part of their package,
AIPA should fire back and list all the perks management get as part of their package,
The PR spin is difficult to control.
You have to remember most journalism in this country is about selling advertising. Just watch the likes of ACA and TT.
I would bet those stories were given to the media in exchange for more paid advertising.
You have to trump advertising money with sensationalism. Its a ugly, dirty way to do business but that is the standard of the media.
You have to remember most journalism in this country is about selling advertising. Just watch the likes of ACA and TT.
I would bet those stories were given to the media in exchange for more paid advertising.
You have to trump advertising money with sensationalism. Its a ugly, dirty way to do business but that is the standard of the media.
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It is difficult to control, as there is no limit to the amount of money Qantas executives will spend on PR. The information flow is mostly one way at the moment (Qantas corporate to media). That needs to be corrected. But we all knew this would happen and AIPA also were well aware of it from some time ago.
The journo problem we can't fix. Many journos are too lazy to fact check and will just reprint a Qantas corporate PR spin almost word for word whether or not it is complete nonsense. We just have to attempt to control the information flow better.
As for the article: riddled with misconceptions. For a start, since when was it "news" that staff can get 10% fares? Most if not all full service airlines have this type of staff travel and usually it's much better than what Qantas offers. His quoted staff fare to LA is out by a factor of nearly 3 (too low) because he neglected to say it is based on FULL (undiscounted and non-promotional) fare prices plus charges. And the concept that this will cost employee jobs and millions of dollars is plucked straight from corporate PR's bowels, because the proposed seats are not revenue seats, nor are full fare paying passengers EVER displaced.
The journo problem we can't fix. Many journos are too lazy to fact check and will just reprint a Qantas corporate PR spin almost word for word whether or not it is complete nonsense. We just have to attempt to control the information flow better.
As for the article: riddled with misconceptions. For a start, since when was it "news" that staff can get 10% fares? Most if not all full service airlines have this type of staff travel and usually it's much better than what Qantas offers. His quoted staff fare to LA is out by a factor of nearly 3 (too low) because he neglected to say it is based on FULL (undiscounted and non-promotional) fare prices plus charges. And the concept that this will cost employee jobs and millions of dollars is plucked straight from corporate PR's bowels, because the proposed seats are not revenue seats, nor are full fare paying passengers EVER displaced.
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In this information age you can defend your position Dutch Roll. Every QF pilot should be in the comments section of these articles defending the pilots position exposing the mistruths, exposing the corruption. You have numbers we all have a keyboard.
Emails, texts, letters to Senators, phone calls fight the fight.
Emails, texts, letters to Senators, phone calls fight the fight.
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You have numbers we all have a keyboard.